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  • romewashington

    So I read an interesting article yesterday about how about 10% of the same people tend to be the winning players and how a lot of them use “scripting” which sounds like a quick way to create multiple lineups.

    My question is how much of a disadvantage does this put a regular hobby player at? Is there any way to compete or this just the reality of it? I’ve actually come ahead in baseball and football but I have been getting destroyed in basketball. Is basketball the sport where these techniques have the most influence?

  • awesemo

    • 1

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #1

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Anyone can do the scripting you are describing, even on this site. It’s actually better to handpick lineups, but it would be impossible to do that for 200 lineups.

  • sunchips666

    they pick a pool of players based on their own projections (what really sets them apart), use a script (optimizer – anyone can get access to this) and then it spits out 200 lineups and they load up with max entries in every tourney

    the guys who win the most spend thousands of dollars daily on entries so you really can’t compete if you throw in 1 entry into a GPP but of course there’s always luck involved and theres been plenty of occasions that a single entry player has won a big GPP

  • tjabchs6

    Well they’re definitely worth playing over cash games, since there will always be an edge in GPPs. There’s hardly an edge for cash games anymore.

  • lionssuck

    Only half kidding of course

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    More than 10% of people are profitable in DFS. There’s just no way 90% of the people who play on these sites are losing players. Now, in any given tourney, about .1% of the field makes up about 90% of the winnings, but that’s a different story…

  • walkoff9

    @jimfred82 said...

    More than 10% of people are profitable in DFS. There’s just no way 90% of the people who play on these sites are losing players. Now, in any given tourney, about .1% of the field makes up about 90% of the winnings, but that’s a different story…

    I would guess more than 90% are losing players.

    As far as losing to the rake.

  • killab2482

    • 521

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @jimfred82 said...

    More than 10% of people are profitable in DFS. There’s just no way 90% of the people who play on these sites are losing players. Now, in any given tourney, about .1% of the field makes up about 90% of the winnings, but that’s a different story…

    totally disagree with this statement. I’d assume less than 5% of users are profitable

  • theseige

    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @sunchips666 said...

    they pick a pool of players based on their own projections (what really sets them apart), use a script (optimizer – anyone can get access to this) and then it spits out 200 lineups and they load up with max entries in every tourney

    the guys who win the most spend thousands of dollars daily on entries so you really can’t compete if you throw in 1 entry into a GPP but of course there’s always luck involved and theres been plenty of occasions that a single entry player has won a big GPP

    Some of the very best players out there only play 3-4 lineups max a night, so to say you can’t win consistently with less than 50+ entries is misleading if just not true

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @killab2482 said...

    totally disagree with this statement. I’d assume less than 5% of users are profitable

    really? wow. I would guess there are enough people grinding around that are least showing a little profit. I personally would be killed by the missus if I lost money on this hobby.

  • headChopper

    RG Contributor (OG Status)

    • 253

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      $1M Prize Winner

    • 2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    The cash lines in the mass multi entry tourney’s are usually lower than the cash lines in the single entry.

  • peachfuzz

    • Blogger of the Month

    @jimfred82 said...

    More than 10% of people are profitable in DFS. There’s just no way 90% of the people who play on these sites are losing players. Now, in any given tourney, about .1% of the field makes up about 90% of the winnings, but that’s a different story…

    This is interesting, and something I would like to know the answer to. I’ve been keeping track of my rankings on RG because I like to think that it is somewhat analogous to the larger whole of DFS because of the large number of data points.

    I’ve only just been getting into the top 10% on the NBA leaderboard, and intriguingly enough, I’ve only started to break through breaking even into becoming actually profitable. I’ve been using my RG ranking as sort of a litmus test as it speaks to my overall profitability. I figured that top 10% is right around the break even line with top 5-10% being “marginally” (marginally is a subjective term, so it deserves quotation marks) profitable, and above that would be getting into the realm of real income.

    Are there many top-5% players who are actually losing overall? I know it is possible considering it’s a point structure which only adds up wins instead of subtracting losses from wins, but I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of those in the top-5% bracket are doing quite well.

    I have also been comparing those percentages to my experience with poker over the past decade, and a half. The 90th percentile is generally eeking out a grind, the 95th percentile is winning at a decent clip, and the 99th percentile are the ones making bank.

    I don’t know if there is any way to actually do the research, but I’d be super interested to read that article.

  • btwice80

    @jimfred82 said...

    really? wow. I would guess there are enough people grinding around that are least showing a little profit. I personally would be killed by the missus if I lost money on this hobby.

    I don’t know how many people are actually profitable, but I think a lot hover around or just below the break-even point.

  • makeitra1n

    @btwice80 said...

    I don’t know how many people are actually profitable, but I think a lot hover around or just below the break-even point.

    What I want to know is how these people that spend 5-10k a day are doing.I’ve always been intrigued by those types of spenders.I’m assuming their bottom line has to be in the 6 figures.more power to them but it’s so hard to fathom that they spend in a day what a lot of people make in months

  • WhiskeyTavon4

    • 932

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Relativity can be a confounding concept.

  • Heterodox

    @jimfred82 said...

    More than 10% of people are profitable in DFS. There’s just no way 90% of the people who play on these sites are losing players. Now, in any given tourney, about .1% of the field makes up about 90% of the winnings, but that’s a different story…

    Stated as a fact without anything to base it on but intuition. Because there’s just no way…

  • JeffElJefe

    • 280

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    • $1M Prize Winner

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      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @headChopper said...

    The cash lines in the mass multi entry tourney’s are usually lower than the cash lines in the single entry.

    Exactly. Most people don’t realize this.

    Look at it this way:

    Would you rather play against everyone’s best lineup every night

    —or—

    One guy’s best lineup, his second best lineup………..down to his 250th best lineup?

    The reason pros multi enter is not to increase their EV for that specific slate, it’s to increase their action and sample size which shortens the length of time it takes to hedge the variance.

    When their opponents Mass Multi Entry it is better for the average player, they just don’t know it.

  • JeffElJefe

    • 280

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x2

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    totally disagree with this statement. I’d assume less than 5% of users are profitable

    Yeah that’s a pretty safe assumption…

  • FkCoolers

    • Ranked #95

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @JeffElJefe said...

    The reason pros multi enter is not to increase their EV for that specific slate, it’s to increase their action and sample size which shortens the length of time it takes to hedge the variance.

    When their opponents Mass Multi Entry it is better for the average player, they just don’t know it.

    Not only that, but everyone who complains about this stuff only references someone like Saahil, Ganondorf, or BCalicore – people who are legit very good multi-entry players.

    They’re aren’t considering the amount of break even or -EV DFS players who also multi-enter. Are they making 200 entries? Doubt it. But I’d also guess you have well over a dozen people making like 5-20 bad entries apiece on a regular basis.

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Heterodox said...

    Stated as a fact without anything to base it on but intuition. Because there’s just no way…

    true. I think it boils down to personality, though, as some people just enjoy it and think of the money they lose as the price of admission. However, there really isn’t any way of knowing for sure unless people step in and say “I’m a losing player,” especially since none of the sites will ever share that info.

  • jr1886

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @JeffElJefe said...

    Exactly. Most people don’t realize this.

    Look at it this way:

    Would you rather play against everyone’s best lineup every night

    —or—

    One guy’s best lineup, his second best lineup………..down to his 250th best lineup?

    The reason pros multi enter is not to increase their EV for that specific slate, it’s to increase their action and sample size which shortens the length of time it takes to hedge the variance.

    When their opponents Mass Multi Entry it is better for the average player, they just don’t know it.

    But you assume fantasy players know which line-up among the multiple line-ups they created is best. This assumption is flawed. I have no problems with people who multi-entered tournaments and they are necessary for the huge prizes. But it’s debatable that multi entry benefits the average player, given that not all muti-entries are created equal. For instance, some multi-entries are duplicates, and others involved just few changes. I would argue, however, multi-entries benefit a Pro with similar or greater skills than the multi-enterer.

  • EadesScience

    “FanDuel and DraftKings are optimized for power players to rape and pillage regular players over and over again.” (Gabriel Harber-CrazyGabey, 2016, New York Times)

  • leroystabbins

    I play 10 lineups a night during the NBA season, GPP only, and have been very profitable. Not talking 1000 person tourneys. The big ones. 30k+. Just keep plugging away

  • catmando

    about 94 percent lose money over history..IE maybe not in a given year but long term IE overall lifetime about 94% lose. This is according to a few of the poker player bigger guys who i have spoken to along with what i have heard at camps, conventions etc.

  • choppadown

    I play 5 GPP lineups a slate in MLB (Maybe 6 if there is a lot of choices to be made). Been getting in the top 50 maybe once every 2 weeks, and then I kick myself for not entering that specific lineup in a higher dollar tournament….and then I kick myself again because if I was playing 5 lineups a night in the $25, I would be through my bankroll super quick.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @EadesScience said...

    “FanDuel and DraftKings are optimized for power players to rape and pillage regular players over and over again.” (Gabriel Harber-CrazyGabey, 2016, New York Times)

    this is 100% correct.

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