INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • mambaland

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2018/02/14/former-investment-darlings-draftkings-and-fanduel-are-struggling-to-grow/#575f34b6269e

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @jmo26 said...

    Yes, they’re projecting ONLY 2% growth in paid entry fees; is it growth, sure? But it’s minimal, and indicates that unless they can soon attract more players, they are about to PLATEAU.

    In other words, stop growing. Hit a ceiling. Peak.

    Another projection provided in the article: “a decrease in DFS total entry fees to $2.5 billion by 2020.” ($3.26 billion in 2017)

    That last line in your comment is a bear case scenario, not the baseline scenario (which conveniently wasn’t mentioned in the article since it wouldn’t fit the negative narrative). So, you are comparing apples and oranges, which makes your point moot. So, you are wrong again. You clearly don’t understand the definition of growth and don’t seem to understand that massive numbers of contests filling every single slate is a positive indicator for the industry. It is ok that you want to be negative. It is your opinion after all. Not supported by facts at all, but your right to do that. Good luck in all your contests as you help the industry grow by playing constantly!

  • jmo26

    LOL sure thing, pal. You take care of yourself.

  • jjwd

    @sochoice said...

    You clearly don’t understand the definition of growth and don’t seem to understand that massive numbers of contests filling every single slate is a positive indicator for the industry.

    Do we have numbers on contest sizes by year?

  • superstars92

    Going back to my point on the last page, I don’t understand why DK doesn’t make contests even bigger and allow larger entry limits (but still keep 20 max around for the lower contests). Contests would still fill (since apparently that is a concern), if they are concerned about this, and they should make it a point by increasing the entry limit, they will reduce rake at the same time to make players happy.

    Like why not just make it infinite limits for the 33, 44, and 55 dollar contests and then make the sizes of the contests about 20% larger while then reducing rake by like 10% from the current level (so if rake is 15%, you reduce it to 13.5%, a 1.5% decrease). They would make more money this way and players would be happier playing those contests because their EV increases and ROI will increase. It makes no sense to have some stupid 150 entry limit. I only enter like 10-40 a night, but I would be glad to still enter 10-40 a night into larger contests with lower rakes.

    This will indirectly solve the “more balanced payout structure” too. Because with 20% larger people and a lower rake, you can keep the #1 payout amount the same the same but then be able to pay 2x min cash rather than 1.5x min cash due to the larger fields (more total money) and lower rake.

    So easy to solve. Everyone wins. It’s so stupid they don’t go to infinite limits and larger contests for the 33, 44, and 55 contests. You think a shark that submits 150 would only submit 150 if sizes were increased to 200? No, they would submit 200.

  • jjwd

    @superstars92 said...

    So easy to solve. Everyone wins. It’s so stupid they don’t go to infinite limits and larger contests for the 33, 44, and 55 contests. You think a shark that submits 150 would only submit 150 if sizes were increased to 200? No, they would submit 200.

    I pretty much agree with this… problem is, perception is reality and the public thinks MME is very unfair. I think the 150 limit was built into the Massachusetts law, so they’ll probably never go higher.

  • superstars92

    @jjwd said...

    I pretty much agree with this… problem is, perception is reality and the public thinks MME is very unfair. I think the 150 limit was built into the Massachusetts law, so they’ll probably never go higher.

    Oh wow if that’s the case, that sucks.

    I see all the contests filling currently (and some like 1 hour before lock), so even with 150 entries, they probably could bump it up maybe an additional 10%. But for maybe an additional 20% increase in size and a correlated reduction in rake, it has to come from an increase in the max entries (allowing sharks to enter more).

    Yea, I get that perception, but that’s mainly because people keep measuring it on “what are my chances to win a GPP” rather than “what is my average return on investment.” I wish more people knew the difference, but I guess if that’s the law, that sucks. There’s no way the rake will ever be reduced then.

  • gravitymaze

    A few posts have stated that you need a perfect LU just to cash. Yeah couple years ago you could actually get an 0 to cash and I believe some have actually won. Today I believe its more about playing it safe.

  • lfn1992

    @SkateFiend said...

    If DK or FD could expand fully into places like Japan and Korea (baseball, video games) where recreational competition is a much bigger deal, they would strike gold, but that’s unlikely.

    I have often wondered why DFS hasn’t caught on in Europe more. You can pretty much bet on anything in England legally, and I’ve got to believe there is a huge untapped market of people who are dying to, say, play League 2 DF Soccer. But whether due to culture, DK’s ineptness/inability or both, it hasn’t happened. Perhaps, as others have implied here, it’s Rake/VIG related.

  • Bigo1

    @lfn1992 said...

    whether due to culture, DK’s ineptness/inability or both, it hasn’t happened. Perhaps, as others have implied here, it’s Rake/VIG related.

    Culture: 7m of Brits play Fantasy, including 4m play the official EPL game. The conversion rate to DFS is v low though
    DK: they tried. Spent quite a lot of money on sponsorships (they are still with Liverpool) and had a team of close to 10 ppl to promote the game in Europe/UK. They let go most of them

    The rake is really high, people think they have no chance at winning, and it is very time consuming.
    Still should be bigger as a niche market

  • infinite420

    @madmanjayWV said...

    That brought back some fond memories from years ago on FANDUEL with a guy names Eyes0fBlue — it was like that every single day in MLB in the GPPs it seemed…

    You know — back when FANDUEL used to show how MANY WINS per sport each user had — it was utterly amazing how time and time and time and time again —- these guys with 0-1-2-3 four-5 wins, etc…would take down the top prize or top 2-3 spots in MLB GPPs…

    SOB — was trying to quote this post — mike291md 1 day ago
    Another issue — lack of transparency. — about the 0.3% owned guy nameless guy winning GPPs

    My heart skipped a beat when i read the name EyesOfBlue. Those were the days when FD chat was around, degenerate city, but it was my degenerate city. And i honestly dont understand why FD did away with displaying each players wins in each sport.

  • depalma13

    @lfn1992 said...

    I have often wondered why DFS hasn’t caught on in Europe more. You can pretty much bet on anything in England legally, and I’ve got to believe there is a huge untapped market of people who are dying to, say, play League 2 DF Soccer. But whether due to culture, DK’s ineptness/inability or both, it hasn’t happened. Perhaps, as others have implied here, it’s Rake/VIG related.

    You answered your own question. It hasn’t caught on precisely because you can bet legally. Once it becomes legal in the US to bet on sports, DFS as you now know it will cease to exist.

  • lfn1992

    @depalma13 said...

    You answered your own question. It hasn’t caught on precisely because you can bet legally. Once it becomes legal in the US to bet on sports, DFS as you now know it will cease to exist.

    The thing is, I don’t know if that’s the case, at least for me. I don’t plunk down straight $$ bets on sporting events but I thoroughly enjoy DFG. It’s like, some people like horse racing, some like blackjack, some like baccarat, isn’t DFG just one more type?

    Granted I grew up playing season-long fantasy leagues, so DFG was a logical extension of that, but going back to the case of England, there have been many season-long fantasy leagues and contests for years now. So it’s somewhat baffling that at least some of those players didn’t jump to DFG.

  • raiders7532

    @mike291md said...

    I think that #3^ the rake has gone up so much because the sites are financially struggling. You need to go back and look what online poker did well. Online poker tournaments didn’t just reward the final table. You got a nice reward for getting close to the final table and you didn’t need to play perfect poker every single time you entered a tournament. You need to scale your tournaments to make them more profitable all around.

    As your current tournaments stand, they are way too ridiculous to make money in. You only cater to the top finishes, the perfect lineup combos. Players now know that just one mistake in your lineup means you’re not winning anything decent. And your lineup can be finished within the first half-hour or hour of contests.

    Offering of single entry tourneys were a great start. However, you don’t promote them at all because you want the multi-entry rake generators. You want the quick money instead of the slow, long-term money of the casual player who returns because he wants something fun and winnable. You love the Lion of the industry but give no love to his prey. Soon, there will be no prey. Heck, this is probably already happening right now. People are getting tired of DFS more quickly because they see how ridiculous it is to churn a profit.

    On top of that, you have situations like the Pelicans Roof incident where one site refunded its customers and another didn’t. It continues to prove that you don’t care about the average customer enough. You’re already bleeding and instead of doing some goodwill for the customer, you decided to further show them you don’t care. You provided more incentive for people to tell other people NOT TO PLAY DFS. You should be focused on the average person. You should be focused on keeping the games clean and winnable. You should be doing things that attract players instead of constantly driving them away.

    But don’t listen to me, I’m just an average player. Keep listening to the guys who say “Make Better Lineups” because that strategy is clearly working out well.

    Great post!!!! Im waiting for sports betting to became legal again and im done with DFS.

  • jjwd

    @Bigo1 said...

    DK: they tried. Spent quite a lot of money on sponsorships (they are still with Liverpool) and had a team of close to 10 ppl to promote the game in Europe/UK. They let go most of them

    that’s not good

  • TeamTwerk

    @lfn1992 said...

    The thing is, I don’t know if that’s the case, at least for me. I don’t plunk down straight $$ bets on sporting events but I thoroughly enjoy DFG. It’s like, some people like horse racing, some like blackjack, some like baccarat, isn’t DFG just one more type?

    Granted I grew up playing season-long fantasy leagues, so DFG was a logical extension of that, but going back to the case of England, there have been many season-long fantasy leagues and contests for years now. So it’s somewhat baffling that at least some of those players didn’t jump to DFG.

    Something I miss about sports is watching the game the way it was intended which is rooting for a team, instead of random players and being only concerned with the score or the result as it relates to a blowout. I would definitely place a few 5+ game parlays every day if I could in addition to my typical DFS play. If you’ve never bet parlays they are really fun.

  • SkateFiend

    @jmo26 said...

    The reason people often abandon their team midway through the season is because their team sucks, and they’ve been virtually eliminated from the playoffs at that point. If it’s not a keeper league, there’s very little incentive to continue participating. That’s part of the beauty of DFS — each day’s a new day, and you’re not stuck with the dogshit team you drafted at the beginning of the season.

    As for being bandwagon fans, I don’t know, I guess? You don’t need to know everything about sports to play DFS — some of the most successful guys on here don’t even watch sports, they just enjoy the analytics side of it. For others, picking some guys from the evening’s slate just makes watching the games a little more entertaining (I know people like this)… if they win a little money, great, but they aren’t expecting to hit six figures. There is an entertainment component to this as well.

    They give up because they either drafted bad teams or they’re just no dedicated enough to improve their team. In H2H being in 8th place by the AS break means nothing. Active players milk he waivers to move up. If you’re giving up on a 20 dollar pro league because you can’t draft good teams you’re probably not going to spend 100 dollars to play DFS everyday.

    Of course I could be wrong, it’s all speculation. If you’re good with numbers you could come up with a good lineup everyday regardless of sports knowledge. DFS allows you to do that. I hear people just buy lineups all the time. I’m not sure if there are new customers waiting to take that kind of approach.

  • jmo26

    @SkateFiend said...

    If you’re giving up on a 20 dollar pro league because you can’t draft good teams you’re probably not going to spend 100 dollars to play DFS everyday.

    Agreed, but who said anything about them having to spend $100 a day as opposed to a couple bucks?

  • Nookx

    Been saying it for years now. The rake is the #1 problem.

  • 77racing

    The Daily Fantasy Sports teet has just about been milked dry..Guys will have to go back to REAL jobs soon

  • coachjk

    german guy here, i mailed DK and asked if they plan to add Bundesliga and what are the big Contest for the World Cup. They said that they will not be running any contest for the World Cup. i guess they dont care about the european market…

  • mambaland

    @Nookx said...

    Been saying it for years now. The rake is the #1 problem.

    sadly most have no idea what rake really is…most will say 10%

  • Bigo1

    @coachjk said...

    They said that they will not be running any contest for the World Cup

    I am sure there was a misunderstanding. They will definitely run World Cup slates. There are even qualifiers for the opening slate

  • Rasmus

    Whats keeps people playing? Wininng money.
    Whats prevents people from winning money? The rake.

    It’s really that simple.

  • mike291md

    @Rasmus said...

    Whats keeps people playing? Wininng money.
    Whats prevents people from winning money? The rake.

    It’s really that simple.

    Agreed. And super top-heavy payout structures.

  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    As a Canadian i have been able to sports bet for as long as i can remember. Since DFS came along i have all but phased out putting money down on games. Guess i feel i have a better shot vs an average joe than the guys setting the lines in Vegas.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler (NJ/WV/PA), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO) or 1-800-BETS OFF (IA). 21+. NJ/PA/WV/IN/IA/CO/IL only.