INDUSTRY FORUM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2018/02/14/former-investment-darlings-draftkings-and-fanduel-are-struggling-to-grow/#575f34b6269e

That last line in your comment is a bear case scenario, not the baseline scenario (which conveniently wasn’t mentioned in the article since it wouldn’t fit the negative narrative). So, you are comparing apples and oranges, which makes your point moot. So, you are wrong again. You clearly don’t understand the definition of growth and don’t seem to understand that massive numbers of contests filling every single slate is a positive indicator for the industry. It is ok that you want to be negative. It is your opinion after all. Not supported by facts at all, but your right to do that. Good luck in all your contests as you help the industry grow by playing constantly!

LOL sure thing, pal. You take care of yourself.

Do we have numbers on contest sizes by year?

Going back to my point on the last page, I don’t understand why DK doesn’t make contests even bigger and allow larger entry limits (but still keep 20 max around for the lower contests). Contests would still fill (since apparently that is a concern), if they are concerned about this, and they should make it a point by increasing the entry limit, they will reduce rake at the same time to make players happy.

Like why not just make it infinite limits for the 33, 44, and 55 dollar contests and then make the sizes of the contests about 20% larger while then reducing rake by like 10% from the current level (so if rake is 15%, you reduce it to 13.5%, a 1.5% decrease). They would make more money this way and players would be happier playing those contests because their EV increases and ROI will increase. It makes no sense to have some stupid 150 entry limit. I only enter like 10-40 a night, but I would be glad to still enter 10-40 a night into larger contests with lower rakes.

This will indirectly solve the “more balanced payout structure” too. Because with 20% larger people and a lower rake, you can keep the #1 payout amount the same the same but then be able to pay 2x min cash rather than 1.5x min cash due to the larger fields (more total money) and lower rake.

So easy to solve. Everyone wins. It’s so stupid they don’t go to infinite limits and larger contests for the 33, 44, and 55 contests. You think a shark that submits 150 would only submit 150 if sizes were increased to 200? No, they would submit 200.

I pretty much agree with this… problem is, perception is reality and the public thinks MME is very unfair. I think the 150 limit was built into the Massachusetts law, so they’ll probably never go higher.

Oh wow if that’s the case, that sucks.

I see all the contests filling currently (and some like 1 hour before lock), so even with 150 entries, they probably could bump it up maybe an additional 10%. But for maybe an additional 20% increase in size and a correlated reduction in rake, it has to come from an increase in the max entries (allowing sharks to enter more).

Yea, I get that perception, but that’s mainly because people keep measuring it on “what are my chances to win a GPP” rather than “what is my average return on investment.” I wish more people knew the difference, but I guess if that’s the law, that sucks. There’s no way the rake will ever be reduced then.

A few posts have stated that you need a perfect LU just to cash. Yeah couple years ago you could actually get an 0 to cash and I believe some have actually won. Today I believe its more about playing it safe.

I have often wondered why DFS hasn’t caught on in Europe more. You can pretty much bet on anything in England legally, and I’ve got to believe there is a huge untapped market of people who are dying to, say, play League 2 DF Soccer. But whether due to culture, DK’s ineptness/inability or both, it hasn’t happened. Perhaps, as others have implied here, it’s Rake/VIG related.

Culture: 7m of Brits play Fantasy, including 4m play the official EPL game. The conversion rate to DFS is v low though
DK: they tried. Spent quite a lot of money on sponsorships (they are still with Liverpool) and had a team of close to 10 ppl to promote the game in Europe/UK. They let go most of them

The rake is really high, people think they have no chance at winning, and it is very time consuming.
Still should be bigger as a niche market

My heart skipped a beat when i read the name EyesOfBlue. Those were the days when FD chat was around, degenerate city, but it was my degenerate city. And i honestly dont understand why FD did away with displaying each players wins in each sport.

You answered your own question. It hasn’t caught on precisely because you can bet legally. Once it becomes legal in the US to bet on sports, DFS as you now know it will cease to exist.

The thing is, I don’t know if that’s the case, at least for me. I don’t plunk down straight $$ bets on sporting events but I thoroughly enjoy DFG. It’s like, some people like horse racing, some like blackjack, some like baccarat, isn’t DFG just one more type?

Granted I grew up playing season-long fantasy leagues, so DFG was a logical extension of that, but going back to the case of England, there have been many season-long fantasy leagues and contests for years now. So it’s somewhat baffling that at least some of those players didn’t jump to DFG.

Great post!!!! Im waiting for sports betting to became legal again and im done with DFS.

that’s not good

Something I miss about sports is watching the game the way it was intended which is rooting for a team, instead of random players and being only concerned with the score or the result as it relates to a blowout. I would definitely place a few 5+ game parlays every day if I could in addition to my typical DFS play. If you’ve never bet parlays they are really fun.

They give up because they either drafted bad teams or they’re just no dedicated enough to improve their team. In H2H being in 8th place by the AS break means nothing. Active players milk he waivers to move up. If you’re giving up on a 20 dollar pro league because you can’t draft good teams you’re probably not going to spend 100 dollars to play DFS everyday.

Of course I could be wrong, it’s all speculation. If you’re good with numbers you could come up with a good lineup everyday regardless of sports knowledge. DFS allows you to do that. I hear people just buy lineups all the time. I’m not sure if there are new customers waiting to take that kind of approach.

Agreed, but who said anything about them having to spend $100 a day as opposed to a couple bucks?

Been saying it for years now. The rake is the #1 problem.

The Daily Fantasy Sports teet has just about been milked dry..Guys will have to go back to REAL jobs soon

german guy here, i mailed DK and asked if they plan to add Bundesliga and what are the big Contest for the World Cup. They said that they will not be running any contest for the World Cup. i guess they dont care about the european market…

sadly most have no idea what rake really is…most will say 10%

I am sure there was a misunderstanding. They will definitely run World Cup slates. There are even qualifiers for the opening slate

Whats keeps people playing? Wininng money.
Whats prevents people from winning money? The rake.

It’s really that simple.

Agreed. And super top-heavy payout structures.

As a Canadian i have been able to sports bet for as long as i can remember. Since DFS came along i have all but phased out putting money down on games. Guess i feel i have a better shot vs an average joe than the guys setting the lines in Vegas.