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  • madmanjayWV

    I will not post said video. Suffice it to say all you need to know is the following. (I WANT THIS TOPIC DISCUSSED, not poofed gone b/c of a video that’s out there but is not needed to be seen in order to understand what they are doing.

    Two guys in the DFS industry are doing their thing as friends and making videos about NBA DFS every night.

    They go over their various lineups from that night which just ended and then they go over the next days slate of games.

    In a very recent video the conversation leading into the show went like this.

    “We stunk it up tonight, no excuses, we picked bad lineups tonight, we made bad lineups..we stunk…bla bla bla…”

    they keep going —— “Let’s just break down real quick our lineups and talk about our triple threat….”

    “Currently, I have no live entries. I find that hard to believe..OH HAHA..That’s b/c I’m logged into the other account. We’ve got like 6 FD accounts right now. We are doing WAY TOO MUCH! We created a joint FD account to better streamline the show…………………?????????”

    what say u ^^^^^^^^^^

  • TwoSHAE

    link…?

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    He had posted a link before, however, it’s against our forum rules to allow promotional posts, which is what it would be doing, intended or not, unfortunately.

    Madmanjay is actually right, they openly admit to breaking Fanduels TOS, but like I told him, he should probably bring his proof directly to Fanduel.

  • Heterodox

    I’m sure FD is just shocked, SHOCKED to find out this is happening.

  • mccoolio

    Not surprising. It’s a shame though. The more and more folks that hit big and get more bankroll can recruit others to help them circumvent entry limits and do their bidding. This industry can’t sustain what is happening.

  • Heterodox

    @madmanjayWV said...

    We’ve got like 6 FD accounts right now. We are doing WAY TOO MUCH! We created a joint FD account to better streamline the show…………………?????????”

    How does this even work? I mean, they seem kind of flippant about it, like it’s clearly nothing to them. They just create a new account “to better streamline the show” as casually as if they were making a new xbox live account just to use a funny name? What goes into running 6 accounts? How could they not be discovered, especially if this slip up is any indication of the level of care they take to be discreet about it. I

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    Keep in mind, these guys are just two random guys and I doubt anyone would even know who they are.

  • madmanjayWV

    @bhdevault said...

    Keep in mind, these guys are just two random guys and I doubt anyone would even know who they are.

    THAT IS EXACTLY the ENTIRE POINT of my question.

    WHICH

    #1 — NO ONE associated with ROTOGRINDERS — the leading DFS sports website for info (IMO) — trust me people — this PLACE IS AWESOME AND I LOVE RG — now don’t get me wrong — I’m totally TICKED OFF that RG — and it’s not their fault — can’t update player RANKINGS like they used to — b/c the crap hole DFS SITES (DK-FD) pulled the FEEDS from them….talk about transparency… yeah, right…….

    I am never going to compete against the “ELITE” but give me the “ELITE” $$$ they have to spend every day and I sure as heck would bet I’m a lot closer to “ELITE PLAYERS” as any other wanna be small-time HACK/BUM…

    These 2 guys, who are quite like a lot of my buddies at the #FDC — are just dudes, but they openly admitted in their VIDEO they are using several accounts.

    That means that they can enter say — 6-9-12-15?+ GPPs in the 3-max ENTRY $1 SWAT —-

    I’ve yet to see anyone from FD say anything about this nor anyone here from RG saying YEAH or NAY about it either….

    I just wanted people to know what is going on out there — at least these 2 dudes are freaking HONEST about it, and as I said in my very first original post, which was taken down b/c it had the VIDEO LINK (which I understand) —- it’s not really much of a difference from the HUGE DEBATE we had about how SHARPS are using team(s) to make different LUs and “circumventing” the 150-max entry RULE

    If a SHARP has 2-3-4-5?? + trusted allies in DFS — think of the damage a few smart dudes with a good ALGO can wreak havoc with. It’s already been talked about a ton. I’m just asking if what these 2 guys are doing is ILLEGAL according to FD TOS.

    I still have no answer.

    And also BHDEVAULT — to your assessment that “I doubt anyone would even know who they are” — their facebook page and hits on a certain video hosting channel would beg to differ..even if it’s on quite a smaller scale than HITS pages here at RG gets on a daily basis…just saying…..#DONOTSHOOTTHEMESSENGER

  • madmanjayWV

    @TwoSHAE said...

    link…?

    PM ME if you want the LINK

  • madmanjayWV

    @bhdevault said...

    He had posted a link before, however, it’s against our forum rules to allow promotional posts, which is what it would be doing, intended or not, unfortunately.

    Madmanjay is actually right, they openly admit to breaking Fanduels TOS, but like I told him, he should probably bring his proof directly to Fanduel.

    Why do I (mmj) need to bring the PROOF TO FANDUEL
    shouldn’t the INDUSTRY LEADER (rotogrinders) be looking out for all the players?

  • rainbowtroutman

    I saw the link before it was deleted. Pretty open and laughing about breaking the TOS. Its why I can’t take DFS serious anymore.For me DFS is a microcosm of our society—-greed and corruption.

  • Nelson01

    @rainbowtroutman said...

    I saw the link before it was deleted. Pretty open and laughing about breaking the TOS. Its why I can’t take DFS serious anymore.For me DFS is a microcosm of our society—-greed and corruption.

    maybe the tax man can look into them

  • Ross
    @madmanjayWV said...

    Why do I (mmj) need to bring the PROOF TO FANDUEL
    shouldn’t the INDUSTRY LEADER (rotogrinders) be looking out for all the players?

    To answer your earlier question about us removing the link: Its simple. Why would we promote people who are potentially breaking the TOS of FD?

    Since you made a forum thread about it to me it seems like you would also want to let FD know what you have found. If not, that’s fine, but I have no clue what your last sentence is implying. We do not run FanDuel, but like every other possible TOS violation we will gladly let them know about it. I did not see the link to this video, but if you pm it to me I will forward it over to them.

    It’s strange to me that you care enough about the issue to make a thread, but not notify the people who can investigate it. Don’t get me wrong, its fine to make the thread and these guys should be called out, but whats the point if you have no intention of letting FD know?

  • rainbowtroutman

    @Ross said...

    It’s strange to me that you care enough about the issue to make a thread, but not notify the people who can investigate it. Don’t get me wrong, its fine to make the thread and these guys should be called out, but whats the point if you have no intention of letting FD know?

    I understand your point but what is the point of letting fanduel know about it. They don’t care,just like DK doesn’t care. When the “famous” brother act won the millie, what did DK do about it? Fanduel would do the same. Its the same old same old every day,every thread.

  • Jcb890

    @rainbowtroutman said...

    I understand your point but what is the point of letting fanduel know about it. They don’t care,just like DK doesn’t care. When the “famous” brother act won the millie, what did DK do about it? Fanduel would do the same. Its the same old same old every day,every thread.

    Unfortunately, pretty much this. FanDuel and DraftKings have both shown time and time again they are willing to look the other way.

  • Heterodox

    @Ross said...

    It’s strange to me that you care enough about the issue to make a thread, but not notify the people who can investigate it.

    This is just a deflection. He brought it to the attention of the community, on a community forum, where you would expect someone to try to discuss something like this. This doesn’t preclude ALSO bringing it to FD’s attention, but that’s a separate issue.

    RG might be the only message board/community forum that just really really doesn’t want to be that at all.

  • Ross
    @Heterodox said...

    This is just a deflection. He brought it to the attention of the community, on a community forum, where you would expect someone to try to discuss something like this. This doesn’t preclude ALSO bringing it to FD’s attention, but that’s a separate issue.

    RG might be the only message board/community forum that just really really doesn’t want to be that at all.

    A deflection? You conveniently stopped your quote just short of the next line that says “Don’t get me wrong, its fine to make the thread and these guys should be called out”.

    The post I quoted was him directly saying he shouldn’t have to bring it to their attention…

  • Heterodox

    Uh, he shouldn’t. We’ve been lead to believe they are policing these things. The players in question are so cavalier it’s clear they don’t take that claim seriously. Maybe that’s worthy of discussion on a community forum?

    Glad you gave your blessing to starting a thread though.

  • SelfCharmer

    @Heterodox said...

    Uh, he shouldn’t. We’ve been lead to believe they are policing these things. The players in question are so cavalier it’s clear they don’t take that claim seriously. Maybe that’s worthy of discussion on a community forum?

    Glad you gave your blessing to starting a thread though.

    Lol must be a troll.

    Completely agree with Ross, seems weird to make a lengthy post in a new thread and complain that it is the RGs SOLE responsibility to tell FD. Surely you could just copy your post to an email to FD if you’re super lazy. Obviously RG will notify FD of things they hear about, being idiotic enough to think it is solely their responsibility is exactly why this type of thing continues. If you have a complaint or problem with something, make the goddamn complaint, don’t expect others to do it for you.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    I say it should be a huge issue, if for no other reason than it continues the anti-DFS narrative. It’s confirmation to anyone that thinks DFS is corrupt and unfair and each instance, big or small, has a negative effect on the player population and the industry’s future growth.

    Unfortunately I’m sure this is no issue to FanDuel. Since the legality issues, with every decision, press release, etc. I’ve gotten the impression that FD is run by people that are in over their heads. They essentially have access to the one form of legal sports gambling in the Country and they are managing to screw it up at every turn.
    If it’s not obvious, I have little respect for them as a a company…I play there because it’s been profitable. If that ceases to be the case, and I go broke, it’s unlikely I would redeposit.

  • rozymikey

    I think Fanduel and Draftkings need a compliance department with all the same lineups that are currently happening in every sport on a nightly basis. Whether it’s friends working together or lineup providers it will end this industry in less then a year if appropriate actions are not taken. There is still no regulation in this wonderful industry. Fanduel and Draftkings must start suspending accounts or banning these accounts with the same exact lineups. I really hope FD & DK start to police their games and the players in it.

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

    I saw the video. Initially I thought it sounded sketchy, but the more I think about it I bet they are not doing anything wrong.

    1) All the accounts they logged onto had account balances of $0

    2) Immediately after saying they created a joint FD account to better streamline the show, they specifically say ‘This is the last time we are going to be using our personal Fanduel (accounts)’.

    3) In the comments of the video, they say their best finish ever is 7th place out 7,000 and 134th out of 117,000. Keep in mind this is like a free advertisement on their videos, so if anything they are overstating their scores.

    Those do not sound like the scores of mastermind DFS cheaters. Those do not look like the account balances of sharks.

    Here is what I think is a more likely explanation. These guys host a DFS show. For 90% of the show they have the FanDuel screen up and they are using it to click on players names and build mock lineups (I scrolled thru the video, this is what they are doing for 90% of the show). It was probably difficult to host the show using 2 separate accounts. They could not edit line-ups on each others account, and did not want to throw up any red flags by logging onto the same personal account from multiple locations.

    So they created the extra account(s) to use specifically for their show. I mean, they did say that they created a joint account to streamline the show. Makes sense to me. Rather than having 2 accounts up while doing the show, they can now have 1 account up that they share. If they are not entering real money contests on these accounts, and only using them for the purpose of their show, I do not think it is a problem (honestly, as long as their total entries between all accounts is less than the entry limit it doesn’t matter).

    They said they created a ‘joint’ account. I have no idea how you create a joint account, when I signed up for FanDuel it asked for my first and last name. That ‘joint account’ language makes it sound like maybe FanDuel is already aware they are sharing an account for the purpose of their show. Also, the new account name is the same as the name of their show, another harmless reason they would want a new account.

    Not really sure why I am defending these guys. The original post in this thread is completely legit. I saw the video, at first look it seemed sketchy. Just don’t think we should automatically jump to the conclusion that everybody is cheating and FD/DK are doing nothing about it. It is easy to take things out of context, and I highly doubt these guys are scamming the system. They should be more careful about they say tho.

  • madmanjayWV

    @rainbowtroutman said...

    I saw the link before it was deleted. Pretty open and laughing about breaking the TOS. Its why I can’t take DFS serious anymore.For me DFS is a microcosm of our society—-greed and corruption.

    Sorry I missed your post or I’d have commented a couple days ago — work is just nuts now..

    But, yeah, you are 100% correct. HOWEVER — we can all agree (IROLL) that the ensuing merger will make the DFS landscape much more palatable…. LMAO

    P.S. — ALSO to ROSS — Y do I have to be the straight up SNITCH? I posted it here b/c it’s worth a discussion. STUPID ME — I’m a hilljack -I thought it was worth a discussion, but I’m obviously in the minority………I don’t care if 2 small-time guys are doing this, honestly.. When sharps are pooling money to circumvent 150 max entry limits that raises a bit more of an issue for me, especially when as many people on this RG forum have previously stated they won a MILLY MAKER b/c of it.

    P.P.S — THANK U — rainbowtroutman —- “I understand your point but what is the point of letting fanduel know about it. They don’t care,just like DK doesn’t care.” — Exactly my point!

  • palavar

    @rozymikey said...

    I think Fanduel and Draftkings need a compliance department with all the same lineups that are currently happening in every sport on a nightly basis. Whether it’s friends working together or lineup providers it will end this industry in less then a year if appropriate actions are not taken. There is still no regulation in this wonderful industry. Fanduel and Draftkings must start suspending accounts or banning these accounts with the same exact lineups. I really hope FD & DK start to police their games and the players in it.

    The implementation of such a proposal would be fraught with unintended consequences, as it is difficult to imagine formulating a rule that restricts collusion between individuals while still permitting the use of proprietary third party information such as that on offer from our gracious host here at RotoGrinder. Simply put, how do you ban two friends from collaboratively producing a shared lineup but still allow for a player to use information obtained in an article from this site? If the exchange of information amongst a few parties is prohibited, how then would information posted on a message board be allowed?

    Of course one could ameliorate the impact by inserting itemized exemptions for certain services and activities that would minimize disruption. This too would be somewhat problematic, as a ToS should provide a regulatory and enforcement scheme that is as uniform, consistent and predictable as possible.

    And really, it would be beneficial if someone would clarify exactly what improper advantage is gained by a group of players intentionally submitting an identical lineup into a single contest. I can understand why such activity produces a vague sense of impropriety which can easily metastasize until one feels a personal injustice. But this is not poker where the knowledge that your friend at the table folded an ace 6 off-suit would be helpful in deciding how to play your pocket kings.

    The only way to gain an advantage as a participant in a group would be to use the common lineup to better anticipate ownership percentages so as to better differentiate a personal lineup. Of course any divergence amongst group participants would be rather conspicuous and unappreciated, which would rather limit the utility. So any such scheme would require the use of at least two accounts.

    Which brings us back to the question of multiple accounts under the de-facto control of a single individual. As the most obvious benefit of multiple accounts is circumvention of single contest entry limits, this form of collusion is not as easily identifiable as the group entries. In fact, if a player has someone willing to submit their SS# amd drivers license, such collusion is virtually impossible to detect.

    That said, it’s unlikely that this form of collusion will become endemic. In fact it is rather self-limiting. Imagine you were college roommates with someone who is now a top level fantasy professional. This player approaches you with a deal, allow him to play under your name and he will give you 50% of the winnings from “your” account. Setup a VPN and you don’t even have to input the rosters yourself. Sounds great, right? Free money. Well maybe not. Because while you are keeping half the profits, you are accruing all the tax liability. Presumably you have a job. That paycheck starts looking a bit different in a higher tax bracket. There are other potential non-tax expenses, like student loan repayment schedule, health insurance subsidies, financial aide for any children etc. For many in the middle class it would be possible to lose money by winning. Meaning high level player would have to recruit compatriots with little to no income, or college students not on any need based assistance. Not exactly the population I would entrust with significant amounts of $$

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

    @palavar said...

    That said, it’s unlikely that this form of collusion will become endemic. In fact it is rather self-limiting. Imagine you were college roommates with someone who is now a top level fantasy professional. This player approaches you with a deal, allow him to play under your name and he will give you 50% of the winnings from “your” account. Setup a VPN and you don’t even have to input the rosters yourself. Sounds great, right? Free money. Well maybe not. Because while you are keeping half the profits, you are accruing all the tax liability. Presumably you have a job. That paycheck starts looking a bit different in a higher tax bracket. There are other potential non-tax expenses, like student loan repayment schedule, health insurance subsidies, financial aide for any children etc. For many in the middle class it would be possible to lose money by winning. Meaning high level player would have to recruit compatriots with little to no income, or college students not on any need based assistance. Not exactly the population I would entrust with significant amounts of $$

    But we have a progressive tax system in the US where each additional dollar earned does not change the tax rate on previous dollars earned

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