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  • icemanyeee

    I see Derek Carty posted about THE BAT today, i’m thinking about signing up when that becomes available.
    to anyone whose used this last year, what does it consist of? do i need to purchase the lineup builder too?
    what were you’r thoughts on it? or should i look for something else

    thanks

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Must admit I never used it, but pretty sure it loves the Dodgers all day, every day……jk.

  • icemanyeee

  • bigez952

    I used the BAT last year and thought it was a decent product for the price. Last year it was sold in two separate packages with one being just the BAT projections which works with the lineup builder which is already free so you don’t have to pay anything additional for that. The 2nd package included training videos, a team BAT projections, and his daily 5-10 minute podcast to explain the slate (M-F). There is also a BAT chatroom where Derek answers questions frequently.

    Last year my results with the bat in cash games led me to a 55.7% win rate +0.2% ROI and double ups I had a 56.3% win rate, +14.1% ROI). Factoring in all contests I was profitable for last season and ended up with a +3.7% ROI which was enough to cover the cost of the BAT and a small profit.

    The big take away I got from last year is how so many touts claim that H2H is by far the best form of cash games doesn’t seem to be true. The logic is your playing more people and on the nights you have an average lineup you will not lose 100% like you would in a double up which is true. However it seems like H2H’s in general always are against other good players so for me over the sample size of an entire season playing on average 25 unique H2H’s per slate I was only able to barely break even where I had a double digit ROI on the single entry double ups.

    These are just my own results and since every user can interpret projections and lock in different players every day so I am sure results vary among BAT users. If your on the fence I would say give it a try as even if I didn’t get rich playing DFS I still got hours of entertainment listening to the daily podcasts.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @icemanyeee said...

    I see Derek Carty posted about THE BAT today, i’m thinking about signing up when that becomes available.
    to anyone whose used this last year, what does it consist of? do i need to purchase the lineup builder too?
    what were you’r thoughts on it? or should i look for something else

    thanks

    Thanks man, glad to hear you’re thinking about getting THE BAT this year. Essentially THE BAT gives you projected stats for every category for every player every day. It gives you projected fantasy points based on those projected stats and each site’s scoring system, plus salaries and points per dollar value calculations. It also has some other useful data thrown in, like projected pitch counts for pitchers, whether the hitter has the groundball vs. flyball advantage, whether it’s a hitters/pitchers umpire behind the plate, etc.

    There’s a tutorial video here that can give you a visual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2RptDsJCqc
    And there’s a page here that explains a lot more of what goes into THE BAT: https://rotogrinders.com/pages/how-the-bat-works-1242325

    I also do a weekly chat sessions for subscribers to ask me anything they want (plus I pop into the chat room a lot outside of the scheduled once per week), and I’m also more than happy to take individual questions via Twitter DM.

    Once you purchase THE BAT, it will work with Lineup Builder — no additional purchase necessary.

    Hope this helps!

  • zigger77

    Are hot/cold streaks added to the formulas that make the projections? If not you really need to add it

  • Lathum

    What does it cost?

  • noheartanthony

    @Lathum said...

    What does it cost?

    Last season it was either 30 or 35 per month. Not sure what the price was before the season started when you could purchase it for the whole year.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @Lathum said...

    What does it cost?

    Official prices haven’t been decided yet, but it should be in the same ballpark as last year, which was $175 for the season ($150 if you got pre-ordered before the season started), or $35 per month.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @zigger77 said...

    Are hot/cold streaks added to the formulas that make the projections? If not you really need to add it

    Haha as much as I’d love to add them in there, to this point the math just doesn’t support it. Tests runs on hot and cold streaks show little to no predictive value to them, so there’s nothing to add, unfortunately. They both exist, but a guy who is on a hot a streak is no more likely to perform better the next day than a guy who is not on a hot streak. I do think there has to be something there for cold streaks — some guys are playing through injury or mechanical issues — but the small sample sizes we’re dealing with means we have a bunch of guys who are just cold by random chance, and so we can’t tell the two apart. My hope is that some of the new Statcast data that is now coming out will help us validate certain hot/cold streaks, and that’s something I’ll be looking into this year and adding into the system if there is indeed something there.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @bigez952 said...

    I used the BAT last year and thought it was a decent product for the price. Last year it was sold in two separate packages with one being just the BAT projections which works with the lineup builder which is already free so you don’t have to pay anything additional for that. The 2nd package included training videos, a team BAT projections, and his daily 5-10 minute podcast to explain the slate (M-F). There is also a BAT chatroom where Derek answers questions frequently.

    Last year my results with the bat in cash games led me to a 55.7% win rate +0.2% ROI and double ups I had a 56.3% win rate, +14.1% ROI). Factoring in all contests I was profitable for last season and ended up with a +3.7% ROI which was enough to cover the cost of the BAT and a small profit.

    The big take away I got from last year is how so many touts claim that H2H is by far the best form of cash games doesn’t seem to be true. The logic is your playing more people and on the nights you have an average lineup you will not lose 100% like you would in a double up which is true. However it seems like H2H’s in general always are against other good players so for me over the sample size of an entire season playing on average 25 unique H2H’s per slate I was only able to barely break even where I had a double digit ROI on the single entry double ups.

    These are just my own results and since every user can interpret projections and lock in different players every day so I am sure results vary among BAT users. If your on the fence I would say give it a try as even if I didn’t get rich playing DFS I still got hours of entertainment listening to the daily podcasts.

    Out of curiosity, do you play mostly DraftKings or FanDuel?

  • timgodd375

    What is the point of paying 175 for the baseball season when premium for all sports is 30/month?

  • bigez952

    @DerekCarty said...

    Out of curiosity, do you play mostly DraftKings or FanDuel?

    I only play on Draftkings. My results for the full season are kind of skewed a little bit due to starting the season out not playing that much volume when the BAT was crushing it which allowed me to up my daily play deeper into the season. At the All Star Break I had an overall ROI over 10% but got hit hard with variance in both August and September which really killed my overall season numbers and brought it down to the +3.7% ROI for the entire season.

    Overall I thought the BAT was a great product and I liked your podcasts, videos, chatroom interaction enough on its own to make it worth it. This year I plan to do a little better job of bankroll management and be consistent on what I play for the entire season since I know that hurt me by not fully taking advantage of the first few weeks when the games offered were larger. I felt like I learned a lot and gave myself hundreds of hours of entertainment with a small profit at the end which is more than I can ask for as I don’t plan on ever making DFS a full time profession so if I can just play all year and not go broke I am pleased.

    Is it going to be the same as last year with two separate packages where one has the BAT and one has the podcasts or is anything changing around that part of it?

  • Lathum

    @timgodd375 said...

    What is the point of paying 175 for the baseball season when premium for all sports is 30/month?

    I get the sense the bat is more in depth as opposed to write ups/ expert survey type stuff.

    I’m trying to decide do I cancel my RG premium membership and go with the bat.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @timgodd375 said...

    What is the point of paying 175 for the baseball season when premium for all sports is 30/month?

    Well, it works out to be about the same per month, and there’s nothing preventing anyone from getting both. THE BAT is different from Premium, though, because it’s a projection system — the premiere one on the market and one that has been shown to outperform even Vegas. They offer different kinds of information and can work together if you so choose.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @bigez952 said...

    I only play on Draftkings. My results for the full season are kind of skewed a little bit due to starting the season out not playing that much volume when the BAT was crushing it which allowed me to up my daily play deeper into the season. At the All Star Break I had an overall ROI over 10% but got hit hard with variance in both August and September which really killed my overall season numbers and brought it down to the +3.7% ROI for the entire season.

    Overall I thought the BAT was a great product and I liked your podcasts, videos, chatroom interaction enough on its own to make it worth it. This year I plan to do a little better job of bankroll management and be consistent on what I play for the entire season since I know that hurt me by not fully taking advantage of the first few weeks when the games offered were larger. I felt like I learned a lot and gave myself hundreds of hours of entertainment with a small profit at the end which is more than I can ask for as I don’t plan on ever making DFS a full time profession so if I can just play all year and not go broke I am pleased.

    Is it going to be the same as last year with two separate packages where one has the BAT and one has the podcasts or is anything changing around that part of it?

    Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I definitely prefer DK to FD, but consistent bankroll management is huge — especially last year, when we had the worst bad-variance month in the five years I’ve been playing DFS. August was just unreal-ly bad, thanks in no small part to the Rockies averaging more than two fewer runs per game at Coors that month than they did in the other five months. Paying a premium for Rockies in what amounted to an average park that month is not a recipe for success lol. Which is a shame given how good the season was leading up to that point. Just nothing you can do about that, unfortunately. I remember looking up and down the Double Up standings every night and seeing all the best quant sharks crashing and burning too.

    Really glad you came out ahead despite all that, though, and that you enjoyed the product :) Haven’t officially decided anything yet, but it’s likely it will be two separate packages again, one with the projections and another with supplementary podcasts and content.

  • Jaws1002

    @DerekCarty said...

    Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I definitely prefer DK to FD, but consistent bankroll management is huge — especially last year, when we had the worst bad-variance month in the five years I’ve been playing DFS. August was just unreal-ly bad, thanks in no small part to the Rockies averaging more than two fewer runs per game at Coors that month than they did in the other five months. Paying a premium for Rockies in what amounted to an average park that month is not a recipe for success lol. Which is a shame given how good the season was leading up to that point. Just nothing you can do about that, unfortunately. I remember looking up and down the Double Up standings every night and seeing all the best quant sharks crashing and burning too.

    Really glad you came out ahead despite all that, though, and that you enjoyed the product :) Haven’t officially decided anything yet, but it’s likely it will be two separate packages again, one with the projections and another with supplementary podcasts and content.

    Derek,

    Just to follow up with this poster. When using the BAT do you recommend double ups or GPP’s, or it doesn’t matter? Thank You.

  • CUTiger81

    I would love if you made THE BAT free for like 7 days just so we could mess around with it a little.

    I purchased THE BAT for the 2015-16 season and there was a lot I liked about it. I didn’t purchase last year primarily because I wasn’t playing the cash volume to justify it at the time but am definitely interested again this year.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @Jaws1002 said...

    Derek,

    Just to follow up with this poster. When using the BAT do you recommend double ups or GPP’s, or it doesn’t matter? Thank You.

    Well, it kind of depends what type of player you are. THE BAT projects mean outcomes. The easiest way to explain that is to imagine you play out each day’s exact matchup millions of times in parallel universes. The numbers THE BAT gives represent the average outcome from all of those universes. This makes THE BAT perfectly suited to cash games, since the only thing that matters in cash games is pure value. That’s not to say it can’t work for GPPs, though. I’m a cash game guy myself, but I regularly talk with subscribers who use it for GPPs and do well; there’s just more of an art to it. Figuring out which players or teams THE BAT likes that will be low owned, finding the right combination of low-owned and high-value, that sort of thing.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @CUTiger81 said...

    I would love if you made THE BAT free for like 7 days just so we could mess around with it a little.

    I purchased THE BAT for the 2015-16 season and there was a lot I liked about it. I didn’t purchase last year primarily because I wasn’t playing the cash volume to justify it at the time but am definitely interested again this year.

    Yeah, this is a common request, and I’ve definitely thought about doing it. The biggest issue I always come back to is the sample size. Over the course of seven days, literally anything can happen, and it wouldn’t be representative of THE BAT (or any other system) as a whole. You can win every single day or you could lose every single day, and I’d tell you in both cases that those results mean almost nothing. I guess my stance has always been that THE BAT is best suited for DFS players who trust the sophisticated methodology (which I’m always happy to answer questions about) and the long track record it has of both quantified accuracy and helping people win in DFS. In the long run, that sound process and proven results should lead to winning seasons, but over the course of a one-week trial there’s really no guarantee of anything. Baseball is just too random over a period that small, and inevitably over the course of a season there will be some cold stretches that coincide with some peoples’ trials. I’d worry about turning people off of a product that they’d otherwise have success with if they trusted the process and used it over a longer period of time. Someone like you who’s used it before understands all this, I’m sure, but I’m not sure how many casual players do. Again, I’ve gone back and forth a lot on it, but that’s kind of been my mindset.

  • joonyari22

    • Blogger of the Month

    This is not meant to be a troll, just some honest feedback…I purchased THE BAT last year. Been playing DFS since 2014 and was profitable in MLB the previous 2 years with no projections, just my own research – single entry life. After 2 months of using THE BAT’s projections as the main component of my research, I had to punt. Gave it 60 days and my results were in the toilet. RG was great about it and refunded my money back. Maybe it was sample size variance, maybe I was using it wrong, maybe I made bad choices, maybe, maybe, maybe…tough to know for sure. I do know that investing in it screwed up my process, as i was leaning on it to make decisions for me despite my gut feelings. This is probably more of a testimonial for me personally, as there are players out there that use it religiously and do well. I will say though if you are not a projections guy and like to construct lineups based on your own research and feel for the slate, make sure you understand what you are getting into, as a projection model will drive you mad when you lean it’s data over your own thoughts and things don’t work out . Just my .02 – GL to everyone this year.

  • CUTiger81

    @DerekCarty said...

    Yeah, this is a common request, and I’ve definitely thought about doing it. The biggest issue I always come back to is the sample size. Over the course of seven days, literally anything can happen, and it wouldn’t be representative of THE BAT (or any other system) as a whole. You can win every single day or you could lose every single day, and I’d tell you in both cases that those results mean almost nothing. I guess my stance has always been that THE BAT is best suited for DFS players who trust the sophisticated methodology (which I’m always happy to answer questions about) and the long track record it has of both quantified accuracy and helping people win in DFS. In the long run, that sound process and proven results should lead to winning seasons, but over the course of a one-week trial there’s really no guarantee of anything. Baseball is just too random over a period that small, and inevitably over the course of a season there will be some cold stretches that coincide with some peoples’ trials. I’d worry about turning people off of a product that they’d otherwise have success with if they trusted the process and used it over a longer period of time. Someone like you who’s used it before understands all this, I’m sure, but I’m not sure how many casual players do. Again, I’ve gone back and forth a lot on it, but that’s kind of been my mindset.

    I can definitely understand your reasoning for that. I’m sure you would have some users who get off the a bad start and think it’s not worth it. For me personally, I’ve played enough and trust my process enough not to overreact to a bad month much less a bad week but I do get that most people want immediate results. Just to offer a counter to think about though – I know for me at least, especially with DFS if I get used to using a product and then don’t have it at my disposal anymore I’m likely to just go ahead and purchase it because now that I’ve used it for a week it’s become a part of my routine. I’m sure there’s some downside to it as though so I don’t think you’re crazy for not offering a trial but I know for me it would be useful.

    Do you have a screenshot of the batter and pitcher pages you could post? I would love to see what the data is that’s feeding into the model. My other question is, and I ask this because I know you’re a believer in large samples, what sort of sample are you using to feed into the outlook for a player in a given matchup? For example….if the Angels are facing Sean Manaea on Opening Day, what kind of sample size is feeding into Albert Pujols splits vs lefties? I use him as an example because his splits vs lefties have been so drastically different the last two years so is THE BAT using just the 150ish PA’s vs lefties in 2017 or is it also factoring in the PA’s from 2016 and maybe earlier?

  • timgodd375

    @DerekCarty said...

    Official prices haven’t been decided yet, but it should be in the same ballpark as last year, which was $175 for the season ($150 if you got pre-ordered before the season started), or $35 per month.

    Does the bat include any sort of projected ownership for each slate?

  • Shadetree42

    Derek, Can you go over how much (if at all) you have changed the methodology for this season? E.g., incorporating Statcast, new weather variables, etc.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    Yeah, everyone is different in terms of their mindset towards DFS and how they like to structure their process, and everyone is different in terms of how they use a projection system to construct their lineups while balancing it with their own personal opinions and research. It can be difficult for certain types of people to trust a projection system’s process, especially when going through a cold stretch. That’s why I like to be as transparent as possible about what goes into the system and answer any questions users have about it. The more you understand what you’re using, I think, the easier it is to trust it. Especially if you’re more of a “gut feeling” kind of player, though, a projection system is pretty much the polar opposite of that, and trying to combine them is probably no easy task. I appreciate the honest feedback, thank you.

  • DerekCarty

    ESPN, RotoGrinders - Creator of The BAT, MLB Scout School Grad, LABR Champ

    @timgodd375 said...

    Does the bat include any sort of projected ownership for each slate?

    It doesn’t, unfortunately. It’s something I may try to add in the future, but it’s not there yet. Chris Gimino does ownership projections as part of RG premium, if you have access to that.

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