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  • tahtinp

    Have you all actually taken the time to consider the implications of the current rake across the major DFS sites? I recently started thinking about this more, and I think I am going to be making some changes.

    The problem is we don’t see it at the surface. We see a $12 buy-in, with 3,921 entries and a $40k guaranteed prize pool. The reality is this: your actual buy-in that goes into the prize pool is $10.20, and your fee to play in that tournament is $1.80. This $1.80 adds up substantially over time. If you lay $25,000 in buy-ins for the year, only $21,250 went into prize pools, and you paid a fee of $3,750.

    FantasyDraft has stepped up with an interesting concept. We’re hearing “rake free”, but we all know they’re still making something off of the players. The thing is, it isn’t really much and it’s extremely player friendly.

    Let’s assume a player lays $25,000 on FantasyDraft over the course of a year. Let’s also assume this player is close to break even and can get this done with an initial deposit of $5,000 without needing to deposit anymore for the remainder of the year. There is a 3% deposit fee, so the first bit of rake is $150. Next up is the monthly fee for playing on their site. For $14.99, you can play up to $3,000 in entries per month. This suffices for our example. If we play all 12 months, this next bit of rake is $179.88. Add that to the deposit fee and we have ourselves a grand total of $329.88 for the year in rake to lay our $25,000 in entries.

    That is a relatively massive difference between the site that has a 15% rake, and FantasyDraft. The great thing is we all have the choice to play or not play, and which sites we want to play on. My hope is that we continue to see competitors step up and make these games more appealing. I know seeing ($100k to 1st) may give you a temporary dopamine rush, but try to remember that for most, the rake alone makes you a massive underdog to be profitable in the long-run playing in these contests.

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    MY RAKE-FREE SAVINGS
    $2,585.92
    This is the amount saved by being a FantasyDraft member vs paying rake on other DFS sites

    Paying full rake makes little sense if you don’t have to

  • SA16

    Yes we know how rake works.

  • bigez952

    Are you being paid by Fantasy Draft to advertise for them or getting some sort of kickback in terms of free entries? To be totally transparent you should include that Fantasy Draft has a sharper player base as only experienced grinders care about the rake to give up the big prize pools offered on DK and FD. I play 50/50 on Draftkings and Fantasy Draft this NFL season and currently have a higher ROI on Draftkings playing very similar lineups as the scoring and pricing is somewhat the same.

    I may be in the minority but I am currently up for the NFL season on Draftkings and been wrecked on FantasyDraft even with the rake free overlay. I am determined to figure it out over there and I got 6 entries lined up over there for this week in the hopes I can finally get the cash line.

    I will give Fantasy Draft props has being player friendly and having the best promos of anyone in the business. They have given me 6 free attempts to play in their big Hooters contest throughout the year. Unfortunately I bricked all 6 so I couldn’t take advantage of it but it was still a really nice opportunity to have the free shots as I need them.

  • tahtinp

    No, I was not put up to this and am not getting paid. I kept hearing “rake free” pertaining to FantasyDraft so I did a little math and was pleasantly surprised to see how little it costs to play there. I haven’t played over there much since 2017, so I am unaware of the level of competition, but the point of my write up was rake.

  • bigez952

    @tahtinp said...

    No, I was not put up to this and am not getting paid. I kept hearing “rake free” pertaining to FantasyDraft so I did a little math and was pleasantly surprised to see how little it costs to play there. I haven’t played over there much since 2017, so I am unaware of the level of competition, but the point of my write up was rake.

    Makes sense. I love Fantasy Draft but I am starting to think that paying rake on Draftkings isn’t a bad thing when 15%-20% of the field isn’t good. Fantasy Draft needs a way to get more bad players than just me over there. Last weekend was a good exampled where I crushed DK for a 3X weekend only to take another total loss on Fantasy Draft with the same player pool.

    My blind spot might be not taking into account the slightly softer pricing and how it effects lineup construction or maybe I don’t dig into the SNF game as much as I need to since it isn’t included on DK. I am determined to try and squeeze out one profitable weekend over there before the NFL season comes to a close. I have enough bankroll over there to hand 4 more weeks of total losses so I better get that site figured out soon.

  • DFSx42

    @bigez952 said...

    Are you being paid by Fantasy Draft to advertise for them or getting some sort of kickback in terms of free entries? To be totally transparent you should include that Fantasy Draft has a sharper player base as only experienced grinders care about the rake to give up the big prize pools offered on DK and FD. I play 50/50 on Draftkings and Fantasy Draft this NFL season and currently have a higher ROI on Draftkings playing very similar lineups as the scoring and pricing is somewhat the same.

    I may be in the minority but I am currently up for the NFL season on Draftkings and been wrecked on FantasyDraft even with the rake free overlay. I am determined to figure it out over there and I got 6 entries lined up over there for this week in the hopes I can finally get the cash line.

    I will give Fantasy Draft props has being player friendly and having the best promos of anyone in the business. They have given me 6 free attempts to play in their big Hooters contest throughout the year. Unfortunately I bricked all 6 so I couldn’t take advantage of it but it was still a really nice opportunity to have the free shots as I need them.

    gtfo of here with that more rake is better bs

    you should be ashamed of yourself

  • jayzee666

    I like the idea of rake free contests on Fantasy Draft. Unfortunately their contest offerings are garbage for people like me who want to play in the $1-$2 ranges. About 97.3% of the contests they have in my range are double ups, H2Hs, and GPPs with 150 max entries.
    I only find on average one or two single entry contests in the $1-$2 range in the lobby vs. 1000s of the other offerings.
    The other sites might have rake but they have much more variety that more than makes up for what Fantasy Draft does.
    It may be different for higher dollar contests, but I don’t play those contests. I won’t be paying my monthly fee this time around and wait for better contest offerings.

  • Jvanspro

    @jayzee666 said...

    I like the idea of rake free contests on Fantasy Draft. Unfortunately their contest offerings are garbage for people like me who want to play in the $1-$2 ranges. About 97.3% of the contests they have in my range are double ups, H2Hs, and GPPs with 150 max entries.
    I only find on average one or two single entry contests in the $1-$2 range in the lobby vs. 1000s of the other offerings.
    The other sites might have rake but they have much more variety that more than makes up for what Fantasy Draft does.
    It may be different for higher dollar contests, but I don’t play those contests. I won’t be paying my monthly fee this time around and wait for better contest offerings.

    The Sprial is a great $1 contest.

  • Smallchimp

    @tahtinp said...

    I know seeing ($100k to 1st) may give you a temporary dopamine rush, but try to remember that for most, the rake alone makes you a massive underdog to be profitable in the long-run playing in these contests

    I get it, but I hate how hard people push against lottery-style payouts. The reason the typical DFS player continues to play is because of the possibility for a life-changing payday, not just more consistent returns. If you told the typical player you were bumping minimum cash from 1.5x to 2x buy in, but you’re cutting first place by half or more, they’d be a lot more upset on average than feel like they achieved a victory, even if they objectively kind of did.

    DFS has gone through evolution and it’s less and less likely that people can earn a living through bankroll management and being a “break even” player or slightly above really isn’t something a casual player cares about. They’d rather put their $20 in the Millionaire Maker or do one of the big $10 showdown contests or whatever and have it be part of their entertainment budget. Someone like that doesn’t care about slow-and-steady bankroll building and the days of extreme information asymmetry are gone so even in cash games or playing against modest players, it comes down to luck often times instead of doing your homework and there’s reliable money to be made.

    Idk. Seems like DFS is trending towards more “flat” contests but it’s hard to be excited about a $1000 top prize compared to a $100,000 one, even if the former is more winnable. DFS is still hard and the only thing happening is money going a little bit longer. Meh.

  • jayzee666

    @Jvanspro said...

    The Sprial is a great $1 contest.

    Kinda proves my point. Out of the 10k contests offered, that is the only one you can find!
    I stopped my monthly subscription as I mainly compete for last place and don’t need to pay a monthly fee for that! It is probably a good thing there offerings suck as I would enter more last place lineups!!

  • yisman

    they had a few good low dollar contests today

    $1-$5 range

    they even overlaid

  • Jvanspro

    @jayzee666 said...

    Kinda proves my point. Out of the 10k contests offered, that is the only one you can find!
    I stopped my monthly subscription as I mainly compete for last place and don’t need to pay a monthly fee for that! It is probably a good thing there offerings suck as I would enter more last place lineups!!

    Not really sure how it proves your point. That’s a contest I play every week for a buck. It’s a great contest.

    Competing for last place is solely on you.

  • jayzee666

    @Jvanspro said...

    Not really sure how it proves your point. That’s a contest I play every week for a buck. It’s a great contest.

    Competing for last place is solely on you.

    It is usually the ONLY reasonable dollar contest available. ONE contest for the whole week. I only check the site a few times a week and I only see a contest like that offered towards the end of the week. With the other sites I can find a few good dollar contests per day. Rake is fine with me when I can find a good selection of contests to play.

    As for competing for last place – It is something I am proud of and usually do it by shutting down good players in great matchups!

  • SkateFiend

    Fantasy Draft is essentially a cash game contest site because their generic positions allow players to hoard the studs and chalk plays. I’ve seen players like Jordan Clarkson owned 0% in their contests.

    That site is hard, and I see tons of trains in their quarter contests. The upside of rake free contests is mostly gone when you have no shot at the top 20 spot and often identical lineups lock down the top positions.

    It’s not a half bad site for baseball and hockey, but their contest selection are slim and min cash for quarter games isn’t 2X. They also took out quarter games for hockey. It’s a shame, because I really like their team goalie format.

  • Njsum1

    @DFSx42 said...

    gtfo of here with that more rake is better bs

    you should be ashamed of yourself

    I don’t understand this reply to @bigez952.

    He wasn’t arguing that paying rake is better. He was arguing that DK attracts more weaker players with their larger prize pools that those weaker players are essentially paying the rake and then some.

    His experience is that he makes money on DK where he pays full rake and loses money on Fantasy draft where he probably pays an effective rake of like 1-3% (I’m guessing a bit here), which he attributes to sharper competition. Actually makes sense. 🤷‍♂️

  • fluffynuggets

    @jayzee666

    You do not need to have a monthly account to play FantasyDraft. If you play less than $100/month, you can enter contests with no fee. I have been playing there for years – and have never deposited a dime.
    Their competition IS TOUGHER since the change to rake-free; but not unbeatable. You can grind the low-limit contests, and overlay. With your track record of reaping, you really should give their $.01 NBA contests a shot – you could max it out everyday and keep under the $100/month limit. Sure, you’ll pay 3% if/when you have to re-deposit; but in the long run, that beats the rake you pay elsewhere.
    You’re not winning elsewhere (at least not consistently); might as well give it a shot. What do you have to lose, really?

  • fluffynuggets

    And, to weigh in on the profitability aspect between sites: I, also, am much more profitable on DK, than FantasyDraft (before, and after, the change). I believe this is mostly due to maximizing the rewards, achievements, free rolls and overlay (particularly in fringe sports). Between DK, FD, Yahoo and FantasyDraft, though, FantasyDraft has unquestionably been the toughest nut to crack.
    I have issues with all of the sites, in some aspect or other. What FantasyDraft has done with the rake-free concept, however, is unquestionably the greatest thing that has happened to DFS since its inception. For daily players, it is the best deal going (DK’s achievements/rewards a close second). Could their contests offerings be better? Hell yes! Could their website be improved upon? Undoubtedly! Could they create a more comfortable environment for small-stakes players and gleeful fish? You bet your sweet ass! But, they’ve made a leap; I believe a transcendent one.
    I hope they are able to make a go of it – if only to force positive changes from the big dogs.

    Happy debating. Now, back to my dark little corner of the internet.

  • bigez952

    @Njsum1 said...

    I don’t understand this reply to @bigez952.

    He wasn’t arguing that paying rake is better. He was arguing that DK attracts more weaker players with their larger prize pools that those weaker players are essentially paying the rake and then some.

    His experience is that he makes money on DK where he pays full rake and loses money on Fantasy draft where he probably pays an effective rake of like 1-3% (I’m guessing a bit here), which he attributes to sharper competition. Actually makes sense. 🤷‍♂️

    This is exactly what I was saying. Obviously less rake is better as my first $75 every week go into the Pat Mayo and DFS Edge rake free contests on DK each week. This week I turned that $75 into $115 and took another total loss on FantasyDraft with the same player pool. Third week in a row turning a profit on DK and taking a total loss on FantasyDraft.

  • joephoto

    @fluffynuggets said...

    Their competition IS TOUGHER since the change to rake-free;

    I’ve loved fantasydraft over the years and won there before. I fully intended to deposit and play all my NFL on fantasydraft this year….. I got crushed because apparently all the Pros did the same thing. I don’t blame them. The players on DK are more beatable and I’m winning now and then even with the high rake.

  • bigez952

    @fluffynuggets said...

    And, to weigh in on the profitability aspect between sites: I, also, am much more profitable on DK, than FantasyDraft (before, and after, the change). I believe this is mostly due to maximizing the rewards, achievements, free rolls and overlay (particularly in fringe sports). Between DK, FD, Yahoo and FantasyDraft, though, FantasyDraft has unquestionably been the toughest nut to crack.

    With how close pricing and scoring is from DK to FantasyDraft this still blow my mind how impossible it has been for me to make money over there even with the rake free model and overlay. I have played there 10 weeks so far and have won more than I put in 2/10 Compared to DK using the same player pool I have won more than I put in 7/10 weeks this season.

    I am running out of weeks to figure out how to cash in the $10 single entry GPP over on Fantasy Draft but I am determined to have 1 good week in that contest as I am 0/10 in that one.

  • FantasyDraftSupport

    • FantasyDraft Representative

    @jayzee666 said...

    It is usually the ONLY reasonable dollar contest available. ONE contest for the whole week. I only check the site a few times a week and I only see a contest like that offered towards the end of the week. With the other sites I can find a few good dollar contests per day. Rake is fine with me when I can find a good selection of contests to play.

    As for competing for last place – It is something I am proud of and usually do it by shutting down good players in great matchups!

    Did you not see the Single Entry GPPs at $2,5,10?

    We also run 100-entry Single Entry 5050’s at $0.25, 1, 2, 5, 10, 25 that replenish all week… and you double up your buy-in instead of 1.8x on other sites…

  • Jvanspro

    I don’t find it hard to be profitable on Fantasy Draft at all. I’m not making a living but am turning a decent profit most weeks. Love the contests and the site. I’ve moved all my play over there.

  • jayzee666

    @FantasyDraftSupport said...

    Did you not see the Single Entry GPPs at $2,5,10?

    We also run 100-entry Single Entry 5050’s at $0.25, 1, 2, 5, 10, 25 that replenish all week… and you double up your buy-in instead of 1.8x on other sites…

    Did you not see my earler post regarding the contests I prefer to play?? ;)
    Freeroll to $2 GPPs, not 50/50s are what I like to play. I don’t play double ups on other sites either.

    I will continue to focus on DK as I have been breaking even recently in addition to cashing in on their Achievements.
    My main point was that you are pounding your chest on how great your rake free contests are, but without a good selection of contests to choose from (at least for me) I am not interested.
    I would probably play at your site more when the contest selections improve.

  • Jvanspro

    @jayzee666 said...

    Did you not see my earler post regarding the contests I prefer to play?? ;)
    Freeroll to $2 GPPs, not 50/50s are what I like to play. I don’t play double ups on other sites either.

    I will continue to focus on DK as I have been breaking even recently in addition to cashing in on their Achievements.
    My main point was that you are pounding your chest on how great your rake free contests are, but without a good selection of contests to choose from (at least for me) I am not interested.
    I would probably play at your site more when the contest selections improve.

    FantasyDraft has super cheap under $2 both SE and ME tournaments every week. I’ve been playing them all season. Not sure where you are looking.

  • yisman

    @jayzee666 said...

    Did you not see my earler post regarding the contests I prefer to play?? ;)
    Freeroll to $2 GPPs, not 50/50s are what I like to play. I don’t play double ups on other sites either.

    I will continue to focus on DK as I have been breaking even recently in addition to cashing in on their Achievements.
    My main point was that you are pounding your chest on how great your rake free contests are, but without a good selection of contests to choose from (at least for me) I am not interested.
    I would probably play at your site more when the contest selections improve.

    I missed some contests as there were too many for me to enter (each contest I had to click, then click to enter all lineups, etc. took time for each), but these overlaid and were cheap GPPs:

    https://www.fantasydraft.com/ticket/11507574/
    https://www.fantasydraft.com/ticket/11507742/
    https://www.fantasydraft.com/ticket/11507483/

    they usually also have quarter and one cent GPPs if you want to go even cheaper. Yes, you said freeroll to 2 dollars but 4 and 5 dollar are cheap contests to enter. I don’t see what the problem is with $1 spiral. You could play 5 entries a week in it and not even pay a subscription fee.

    I roughly broke even yesterday.

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