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  • BPhillips44

    This is not sour grapes from someone who is a losing DFS player (which I am), but rather a statement of truth that over 90% of DFS players should listen too.

    Bottom Line: You aren’t going to be profitable, get out before the sharks eat you up and spit you out!

    I started playing DFS in 2015 and it was a blast. I loved crafting lineups and seeing how they stacked up against others. I won some, I lost some but it was fun. It wasn’t about the money for me (I played very low stakes) but rather the competition and the strategy, and if I won a little cash it was an added bonus.

    For about 2 years, I just focused on lineup building and doing the best I could each night, but as time went on, a winning lineup was harder and harder to come by. Why was this?

    To my fault, for those 2 years I never thought about the sharks as I was thinking they were only playing the high stakes, and us “for fun” players were in the $1 to $5 range. Boy was I wrong!!!!

    One night I decided to open up the rankings and started to learn the names and WOW, there they were sitting in my $5 10 man 50/50 just waiting to devour! This happened night after night, but being the competitor that I am, I thought I could match up with them if I just did a little more research

    So days and months went by with me playing against these sharks, and I would lose, and lose, and lose. Every once in a while I would place in a $5 10 man contest, but that was a rarity. But again, this wasn’t about the money it was that I just wanted to be competitive and win

    Finally, the lineup building and looking forward to the nights set of games became less and less fun as the days went by.

    On June 13th was my last day as a DFS player. I entered a $5 10 man 50/50 and was following my players periodically on my phone, as I was in a meeting. My guys were crushing it. Home runs, doubles, stolen bases, my pitcher was throwing a gem. I was thinking, boy I got one tonight! I came home, hopped on Fanduel and was in 6th place and was being lapped by 2 sharks in the Top 50 ranking. That was the night it finally dawned on me that this was a complete waste of time, and that I was never going to be able to win consistently.

    To be clear, I am not mad at the sharks at all. Hell, if you can win at the rate you are I would be entering every contest on the site too, regardless of entry fees.

    Unfortunately, you sucked all the fun out of DFS for me and I would urge those who just play for fun too take my advice, as a point will come that it won’t be fun for you either!

  • OttawaCityMadman

    I hear ya, and see it too. Im the same, small stakes. Feel Im getting better. Tennis really boosted me, but probably because the sharks arent in there yet (the overlay was helpful as well). I like the move DK have made limited the high rollers. But I bet there are guys working with the sharks, just playing under the high volume exclusion limit, just to clean up on those 1$-3$ contests…

  • JH822547

    I’m going to stop once I’ve taken down a Milly Maker.

  • d735123

    I hear you too. I’m thinking next year I might just take a trip to a state with legal sports betting and putting future World Series bets on 3-4 teams so I have a rooting interest (can’t really watch baseball otherwise).

  • bigez952

    This is a very misleading post and isn’t really truth but merely opinion. There is truth that with the current rake structure 70-80% of all players will be net losers so it is not easy to breakeven or be profitable. I am far from a pro but managed to be slightly profitable over the last 3 years but I would still consider myself to be in the breakeven category. To me at the end of the day DFS is more about the entertainment of being able to follow your contests nightly that it is expecting to make an income out of it.

    Looking at the rankings and associating that with skill is also very flawed. The RG rankings are way more about volume than skill as you get points for every cash but your non cashes don’t hurt you. So of course the guys that play in everything are going to be ranked high but that doesn’t always correlate to them being the best or most profitable players. Granted if your playing millions of dollars in volume I really hope they are being profitable in doing so or at least have a billion dollar trust fund to fall back on.

  • LanceUppercut

    I was in $3 DK 50/50s last night and noticed that two players who always have a bunch of $1 H2Hs posted had the exact same lineup. I checked the $250 50/50 and saw the same lineup again from a third person. I looked the highest cash game player up on twitter and he was selling lineups. You are still playing against the sharks’ lineups at every level.

  • dsmodi

    Same story here…low stakes player who is mostly loosing and growing increasingly more frustrated. In the past few weeks I have been avoiding the top heavy GPP’s and instead focusing on smaller contests like the $1 10 man, 5 man, and even 3 man contests where it is very easy to see who you are playing against. At first I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. It’s not unusual to see 3-4 people in a 10 man contest who are ranked in the top 10% on RG. I understand the point bigez952 is making about volume not necessarily translating to success, but that doesn’t mean I want to take on a guy who is ranked in the top 200 on RG in a $1 3 man contest, but I have no choice if I want to play at that level because the guy has an entry in every available contest.

    In my opinion it’s pretty short sighted of these high volume players to be down in the entry level contests. They will chase out the easy money and it will just be grinders vs. grinders.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @dsmodi said...

    In my opinion it’s pretty short sighted of these high volume players to be down in the entry level contests. They will chase out the easy money and it will just be grinders vs. grinders.

    I have been playing for nearly 5 years now. This argument is always made and it just doesnt hold water. Yes , some users may quit, but there are still enough that all contests still fill regularly. Every time I enter a GPP I know I will be competing against some VERY good players with multiple lineups. I dont mind it. This isnt a job for me. I dont count on the income. I play with exactly what I can afford to use and I treat DFS as a hobby or entertainment. Over the last 5 years , I am certainly not at a net profit , but I still enjoy it daily

  • MrNastyTime91

    • 163

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  • mambaland

    i think its obvious and you can look at the many articles that have been written that a very small percent profit over time…same is true in poker so nothing new here.

  • YoungFischer

    I think this is a fairly accurate portrayal of the current state of the industry.

    While the same argument could have been said in years past, it’s even more pronounced now. Combine a general lack of industry innovation with a shriveling ecosystem and the result is a stale product for many players.

    I also agree that the overlap / high player ownership is a drag on user experience. It’s a bummer when you see your players having a big night only to check the contest standings and realize it’s shared among everyone else making it much less meaningful. Who cares if Chris Sale strikes out 10+ guys in your double-up when he’s 80% owned?

    You might try the new single game contests. While it’s true that overlap is a problem there also, you may find that a better user experience.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    If it isn’t about the money and you love crafting lineups, then just play the free games or the quarter games.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    Blaming just the “sharks” is a bit myopic.
    It’s so much more than that…

    I’m someone that plays smaller stakes. I played on the same small deposit for years just grinding, having fun and making a small profit (never had a BIG win)
    The last year or so being able to survive in that manner has become tougher and tougher and i definitely started to lose and I’ve come close to giving up as well…

    For me though the reasons for this are a bit different..
    higher rake – self explanatory
    Poorer payout structures. Especially Min. Payout what used to be x2.5-3 is 1.5-2. That difference alone can turn a player who turns a small profit into a losing player.
    Lineup sellers/optomizers/etc. – want to know where the edge has gone? when 5-10% (conservatively) of losing players are now using professionally built lineups, that again can be the difference.
    And you can throw an all encompassing, the sites have been run by morons in over their heads as well…imo FD much more so than DK’, but this is where I’d throw the shark complaints, as so much of the decision making has been short sighted and it’s fostered an environment with everyone involved trying to take as much now with no regard for tomorrow.

    I would encourage others to follow yout lead and get out when/if it’s not fun. It’s not easy, most will lose so if you can’t afford it or don’t enjoy it, don’t bother. It’s what ive tried to do of late. If DFS is adding additional anxiety or stress in my life it’s usually time to cut back for a bit.

    And if I may nitpick – if you present something as the truth and follow that with it being your opinion, you’ve lost all authority. To be honest I initially clicked the thread just because that was going to make my head explode.
    It’s likely better framed as “your experience” your truth and why it led you to become disillusioned by/quit DFS.
    Sorry for being that person lol but I think I saw others already use that against your argument due to the wording and really everything you said is valid because it is your experience, then the discussion is how that compares to that of other users and whether their are commonalities to extrapolate larger issues or truths, etc.

  • gvn2fly1421

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    And if I may nitpick – if you present something as the truth and follow that with it being your opinion

    His initial title was “The truth about DFS” and I am guessing RG mods came behind and added the “in my opinion”.

    OP, those “sharks” you are talking about take money from you and give it to charity so it’s all good. They are like a modern day Robin Hood.

  • dolphinkick182

    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    His initial title was “The truth about DFS” and I am guessing RG mods came behind and added the “in my opinion”.

    OP, those “sharks” you are talking about take money from you and give it to charity so it’s all good. They are like a modern day Robin Hood.

  • jjwd

    Get over to Fantasydraft bro!!!!!!!

  • FantasyDraftSupport

    • FantasyDraft Representative

    @jjwd said...

    Get over to Fantasydraft bro!!!!!!!

  • Undrafted

    I love NBA but my biggest problem is I don’t have enough time to research. I play for fun. Probably break even after 4 years of play. I did pay taxes one year so it all balances out. Big tennis fan so I hope it sticks around. Like most I play for fun.

  • txdave41

    @jjwd said...

    Get over to Fantasydraft bro!!!!!!!

    I didn’t find FantasyDraft to be any easier. Draft is where it is at if you want to avoid sharks. The appeal is once you pick a player then no shark or anyone else can play that person.

  • Nookx

    The rake is to high. Still waiting for lower rake so we can start playing again.

  • mike291md

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    For me though the reasons for this are a bit different..
    higher rake – self explanatory
    Poorer payout structures. Especially Min. Payout what used to be x2.5-3 is 1.5-2. That difference alone can turn a player who turns a small profit into a losing player.
    Lineup sellers/optomizers/etc. – want to know where the edge has gone? when 5-10% (conservatively) of losing players are now using professionally built lineups, that again can be the difference.

    I agree. I think the strangling high rake we currently have is way more of the main problem in affecting profit. It’s tough to churn a profit nowadays just playing GPP’s solely unless you are consistently hitting top 10 cashes. We all know how incredibly tough it is to just place in the top 100, let alone the top 10 where you need pretty much an absolute perfect lineup.

    The wealth of information out there nowadays for FREE, let alone also the info out there that you can pay for, also adds up to people crafting more competitive lineups. The competitive edge has shrunken big time. There used to be the brand name guys – the Condias, etc. Now you’re up against what feels like an army of Condias because everyone has access to free blogs, videos, etc. to make them a better DFS player. The exact same thing happened once online poker blew up around the early 2000’s.

    You go to a DFS YouTube video and it’s got 500 views. That’s 500 potential lineups right there using that guy’s advice. And trust me, the advice is pretty darn good for being free.

    So ultimately, the ecosystem is damaged primarily by 3 things, in my opinion. High rake, wealth of information which also equates into lower competitive edge, and finally by lineup selling/sharing/etc.

    I’ve said it 100 times, but you can’t expect the individual player to stop buying lineups, especially if they find it profitable. The responsibility is on the sites to police it. That’s the only way to stomp it out is to create and execute measures that deter it. And we all know the stance the sites have taken up to this point. And if DFS ever dies, I believe it’s because the proper steps were never taken to police it properly for long-term sustenance.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Nookx said...

    The rake is to high. Still waiting for lower rake so we can start playing again.

    then you will never play again

  • hendry

    no one ever thinks that the reason they are a losing player is because of the games they select and the lineups they submit. theres always some other reason.

  • FantasyDraftSupport

    • FantasyDraft Representative

    @Nookx said...

    The rake is to high. Still waiting for lower rake so we can start playing again.

    All,

    Our rake has never gotten above 12.99%, which is consistently 3% less than other places.

    Additionally, we still offer all of our H2H games at HALF THE RAKE of the industry, which adds up for the players :)

  • tamparoor

    Same for me used to play every sport every day now I only play mma and it’s the same 5 people winning every contest it’s not even fun anymore. How is it fun when you can name the winner of a contest before it starts. Don’t believe me I will bet anyone on here I can predict the winners for this week mma contest how could I not when it’s the same 5 people over and over again

    Oh I made a sidebet with a friend last year that a user named chiploteaddict would win a contest we were in with over 50k in it he said no way you can guess that well I was right and won 50$ most I’ve ever won using dk lol

  • ocdobv

    @YoungFischer said...

    I also agree that the overlap / high player ownership is a drag on user experience.

    maybe in cash games, but this is basically free money in gpps.

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