INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    I was talking to some friends the other day about how much has happened in the past four years since I got into DFS and it’s crazy that we’re actually reaching a point where we’re getting enough of a sample to see some statistical categories arise, if only for the sake of discussion. The bottom line will ALWAYS be the bottom line and cash will always be king, but we’ve reached a point where we now have four TPOY winners, enough contests with a million dollar first prize that just having one doesn’t totally separate a player anymore as there are only two players who have won multiple seven figure first prizes (RayofHope & cheeseisgood). Counting live finals appearances across sports is akin to making final tables in poker. Winning six figure GPP prizes multiple times in a sport or winning them across multiple sports is another separate category. Much like LABR and ToutWars the DFS industry has it’s own competitions spring up like the FantasyPros accuracy challenge, StarStreet Elite as well as many others. RG has come up with the trophies page on players profile pages, and while they don’t reflect everything just yet, it’s pretty cool to look at the pages of people I’ve met over the past few years and in one place find all their accomplishments in DFS.

    There’s so many different ways now that we can come up with lists and categories to put players on because of the growth of the industry that I find very interesting. I’m sure I’ll get a “cool story bro” response or three, but just something I was thinking about over the weekend.

  • rotokevin

    2014 RG Bowling Co-Champion, CPA & DFS Tax Guru

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    It has been fascinating to watch evolve. I miss the purity of the industry from its early days – no scripts, no scooping, no touts, just instant-gratification fantasy sports. RIP Joust.

  • maxeernst

    I miss Draftstreet and snake drafts. Anyone have any idea why DK never brought them back after the acquisition?

  • rotokevin

    2014 RG Bowling Co-Champion, CPA & DFS Tax Guru

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Ooh, also:

  • MrFantasy

    I remember playing on Draftday in 2011 and being blown away at $5000 prizepools. I wish I took DFS more seriously back then as I didn’t try any other sites until early 2014.

  • maxeernst

    @MrFantasy said...

    I wish I took DFS more seriously back then

    This x100000 would be a far richer man today.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @rotokevin said...

    It has been fascinating to watch evolve. I miss the purity of the industry from its early days – no scripts, no scooping, no touts, just instant-gratification fantasy sports. RIP Joust.

    In an attempt to reach the masses, we got flooded with touts, affiliates, and even content from dfs sites themselves. In the process, we compromised our angle as a game of skill. I’m not saying it’s no longer a game of skill, but just less so than in previous years.

  • BobGrinder

    Hasn’t SamENole hit multiple million dollar prizes?

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    @BobGrinder said...

    Hasn’t SamENole hit multiple million dollar prizes?

    I believe he won one in NFL and has come close a couple other times but not won a second.

  • bk1248

    Nowadays it seems like fanduel pricing is so soft for NBA cash games, i could have easily picked 20 guys in NBA cash games tonight, and the way it works is I pick my 9, the other 90% of the field has a combination of the 20 and its about who runs hotter that day.

    When I look at the bottom 15% of lineups each night they didn’t have bad picks, just foul trouble and an off night from 1 or 2 players.

  • Troll4MVP

    • 30

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #25

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • 2014 DraftKings FFWC Champion

    @kaetorade said...

    In an attempt to reach the masses, we got flooded with touts, affiliates, and even content from dfs sites themselves. In the process, we compromised our angle as a game of skill. I’m not saying it’s no longer a game of skill, but just less so than in previous years.

    Why do you think it’s less of a game of skill now?

    EDIT: Ok obv you think it’s less a game of skill because of the touting, missed that part.

    Nevertheless, plenty of people play far from optimal. The skill is still there, if that’s how you’re defining it.

  • ckamins87

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @Troll4MVP said...

    Why do you think it’s less of a game of skill now?

    EDIT: Ok obv you think it’s less a game of skill because of the touting, missed that part.

    Nevertheless, plenty of people play far from optimal. The skill is still there, if that’s how you’re defining it.

    Honestly though, the touting just gives out what any informed player already knows or can infer. There are plenty of common sense picks, but it’s the decisions we make that determine how we finish. Overtime, the skill part is demonstrated when certain people seem to make the correct decisions time and time again.

  • AidenTheEnemy

    And now Draftkings in the UK. Who would have thought it would have taken the University of Kentucky this long to allow this on their campus?

    BTW, what happened to Rose last night? I had him in 110% of my lineups.

    Oh well, I’m taken down the Sunday Milly tonight!

  • tipandpick

    • 2016 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FAFC Champion

    @kaetorade said...

    In an attempt to reach the masses, we got flooded with touts, affiliates, and even content from dfs sites themselves. In the process, we compromised our angle as a game of skill. I’m not saying it’s no longer a game of skill, but just less so than in previous years.

    It’s still a game of skill.

    The difference is that the EDGE is less for skilled players than it once was due to better information being readily accessible.

  • WhiskeyTavon4

    • 640

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @tipandpick said...

    It’s still a game of skill.

    The difference is that the EDGE is less for skilled players than it once was due to better information being readily accessible.

    Or is it actually way more because the market is bigger across all sports and all the perpetual group think makes certain spots extremely advantageous in gpps.

  • WhiskeyTavon4

    • 640

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Also. Are touts allowed to lament the perceived lack of edge if in theory they were paid to create it.

  • draftcheat

    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    DFS is the best.

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    @tipandpick said...

    It’s still a game of skill.

    The difference is that the EDGE is less for skilled players than it once was due to better information being readily accessible.

    Every game evolves and changes over time and as a player you need to evolve with it and stay ahead of the curve or you’ll become a dinosaur. If you were successful three years ago and successful now you’ve done a good job of that. There are other players who have had a hard time of changing with the times which is understandable, DFS has moved really quickly in a very short time so just having the consensus “right” plays isn’t enough anymore. It comes down to roster building, game theory and using the information that’s out there in ways you can leverage it against the field.

    It’s 100% still a skill game, just as it was at inception. Blaming “touts” or anyone else is a pretty lazy way to explain diminishing returns over time as opposed to reflecting on one’s own style of play to see where it could evolve and/or improve.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @tipandpick said...

    It’s still a game of skill.

    The difference is that the EDGE is less for skilled players than it once was due to better information being readily accessible.

    I lumped it together as requiring less skill because it’s more difficult to separate yourself from the pack than it was in year’s past. In reality, it’s just as you said: diminished edge. That said, as Whiskey pointed out, with that same logic, you can argue that it’s actually never been a more ‘skillful’ game.

    On a brighter note, I prefer where DFS is today vs years past, legal issues notwithstanding. The amount of money and traffic at even the small sites has grown considerably. Even though I’m not in the ‘game,’ it’s kind of cool to see names that I see on a daily basis in lobbies that now have their own shows and/or have become large contributors to the industry!

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @alsmizzle said...

    It’s 100% still a skill game, just as it was at inception. Blaming “touts” or anyone else is a pretty lazy way to explain diminishing returns over time as opposed to reflecting on one’s own style of play to see where it could evolve and/or improve.

    If you are of the opinion that guys like myself are ‘blaming’ touts, then also understand that I CREDIT touts/affiliates, etc for GROWING the industry. Everyone wants action and touts/affiliates have certainly helped with growth. For the record, I don’t blame touts/affiliates in that sense that I wouldn’t remove them from the industry. It was inevitable that they’d saturate the market. Do I like it? No, I don’t. However, w/o the abundant information readily available, we wouldn’t have nearly the action we currently have. As I’ve always told friends, touts/affiliates are a necessary evil because they bring in more traffic.

  • garbage9922

    • 2016 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    There’s kind of a U-shaped curve with touts. At the beginning of DFS, you had an advantage if you were merely able to find information. In the early days, you might not find information that was that great, but it would usually be better than no information. As a few tout sites popped up, it became pretty easy to make a reasonable lineup without much effort. However, as tout sites proliferate, the signal to noise ratio decreases. At the far end of the curve, there is so much out there that it’s hard for a new player to even understand what is good.

    We’re already at the far end of the curve with season-long football, where there is so much out there that you can find a source to back just about any play.

  • tvsfrink

    I don’t miss the old days of Oct 2015 when I first started and had no idea of what I was doing. I barely remember back that far.

  • Cityworkout

    @kaetorade said...

    I lumped it together as requiring less skill because it’s more difficult to separate yourself from the pack than it was in year’s past. In reality, it’s just as you said: diminished edge. That said, as Whiskey pointed out, with that same logic, you can argue that it’s actually never been a more ‘skillful’ game.

    On a brighter note, I prefer where DFS is today vs years past, legal issues notwithstanding. The amount of money and traffic at even the small sites has grown considerably. Even though I’m not in the ‘game,’ it’s kind of cool to see names that I see on a daily basis in lobbies that now have their own shows and/or have become large contributors to the industry!

    Yes there are days on FD where you barely have any room for error in the NBA cash games. A lot of overlap, and you just have to make one extra good pick or not have that bust of the night to be in the upper half.

  • JoeTall

    FastFantasy COO

    A lot has changed and more change to come.

  • bringemvaught

    • 361

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #21

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I remember having to create h2h’s one by one by one…

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    @bringemvaught said...

    I remember having to create h2h’s one by one by one…

    SO much this…

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