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  • dmanyep

    So, I’d like some help from the community to understand why people play cash games. First off, I think I might not understnad the definition of what a cash game is. I currently think that any contest where you can enter 1-3 lineups (max) is a cash game. Am I right or no? If so, then I can say I understand cash games.

    however, if I’m wrong and a cash game is head-to-head or single entry into a very small pool (like the $1,500 entry contests where only 12 people enter) then I don’t get it. Why do that? So much risk at the higher end you better be a bad-a$$ mo-fo to enter…on low end, who cares about winning a few bucks?

    I’m not trying to be an asshole, just saying that once I got the balls to max out 150 entry contests…i never looked back (until now i guess). Thoughts?

  • bucherpsu08

    Cash games are H2Hs, double ups and 50/50s.

  • dmanyep

    so I can understand mass entries into double ups to build a cash base for larger gpp entries. Same with 50/50s

    H2Hs are fun, not worth stressing over. Seems like there is a lot of focus on them still. I don’t get it.

  • Jim8888

    H2H is to help diversify, Let’s say, if you only play one cash line up per day and your pitcher miss badly, there is no way you will cash in large double ups or 50/50s. But there is chance that you will still win in H2Hs.

  • dmanyep

    Hmmm, ok. So it’s not a bad thing to do to hedge the GPPs. That makes sense. Thanks!

  • Njsum1

    @dmanyep said...

    Hmmm, ok. So it’s not a bad thing to do to hedge the GPPs. That makes sense. Thanks!

    It only makes sense if you have a positive ROI playing cash games, or else your throwing good money after bad.

    The only reason to play cash games is that you expect to win over time. Or perhaps you feel you have an edge on a particular slate, and want to get as much money down as possible without moving up to the higher stakes GPPs and taking on better players or playing out of your comfort zone.

    I dont like the hedging argument, as you can hedge within your multiple GPP lineups. Because if you’re bad at cash games, you’re not really hedging anything, you’re just losing more money.

  • Jim8888

    Well, the reason we play any kind of games is that we expect to win over time, isn’t it?

  • Njsum1

    @Jim8888 said...

    Well, the reason we play any kind of games is that we expect to win over time, isn’t it?

    Well no, some people just like to play. I’ve been in season long leagues for years and some teams have never won anything. Most DFS players don’t win either, yet people still like to play.

    I was answering the question as to why a Profitable GPP player may want to supplement their play with cash games, which is what I think OP was asking.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    For the vast majority of DFS players, it is of my opinion over the long term you are misusing your allotted resources each week by playing cash instead of gpp’s. It takes a lot more winning in cash games over time to overcome rake and the 2017 level of competition. While in Gpp’s, you can still have an awful win rate, yet have a positive roi long term if you manage your bankroll correctly. And even if you say have a 5% ROI long term in cash, you’re still misallocating your money each week by playing in cash where your expected ROI in GPP’s should be much higher than 5%.

    I would say only the top 10% of dfs players should be playing cash games. And they are right to keep playing until the other 90% wises up. I’ve been saying that now for over 2 years………

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @dmanyep said...

    Hmmm, ok. So it’s not a bad thing to do to hedge the GPPs. That makes sense. Thanks!

    you can hedge your massive 10k+ person gpp entries with 1000 person or even 100 person single entry gpp’s.

  • hendry

    @dmanyep said...

    on low end, who cares about winning a few bucks?

    its actually pretty easy to get 5 figures in play playing small stakes NFL cash

  • jimmyd1507

    @thedude404 said...

    For the vast majority of DFS players, it is of my opinion over the long term you are misusing your allotted resources each week by playing cash instead of gpp’s. It takes a lot more winning in cash games over time to overcome rake and the 2017 level of competition. While in Gpp’s, you can still have an awful win rate, yet have a positive roi long term if you manage your bankroll correctly. And even if you say have a 5% ROI long term in cash, you’re still misallocating your money each week by playing in cash where your expected ROI in GPP’s should be much higher than 5%.

    I would say only the top 10% of dfs players should be playing cash games. And they are right to keep playing until the other 90% wises up. I’ve been saying that now for over 2 years………

    On the contrary…

    If you beat 50.1% of players in your 50/50s over the length of the season, you’re going to make money.

    If you beat 50.1% of players in a GPP, you’re going to get $0.

  • badgerdores

    @jimmyd1507 said...

    If you beat 50.1% of players in your 50/50s over the length of the season, you’re going to make money.

    That’s not true. If you factor in rake it is a much higher win percentage to make money.

  • jimmyd1507

    @badgerdores said...

    That’s not true. If you factor in rake it is a much higher win percentage to make money.

    ‘Much’ higher?

    57 players, 25 of them win their double up.

    That means, 46% of players win.

    So, being in the top 54% percentile doubles your money every week.

    In a 50/50, its literally 50.1%. Even if the rake was 90%, if you are in the 50.1% percentile every week, you’re going to make money. Its really that simple.

  • Jvanspro

    I’ve been doing 90% or more in cash each slate for a while now. I can tell you that for me it’s very profitable and I don’t have to spend a ton of time trying to make multiple lineups and throwing darts. I just make one lineup and more times then not I walk away with a nice profit.

  • johnny

    @jimmyd1507 said...

    In a 50/50, its literally 50.1%. Even if the rake was 90%, if you are in the 50.1% percentile every week, you’re going to make money. Its really that simple.

    DraftKings has 50/50s 4 players at $10 and top 2 win $18.

    Say you enter 1,000 contests at $10 = $10,000 in fees

    If you win 50.1% = 501 wins * $18 prize = $9,018

    You need to win 556 wins = $10,008 to break even = 55.6% with the rake in this contest.

    How do you figure the rake makes no difference in the win percentage needed to make money?

  • MattyK1981

    @Jvanspro said...

    I’ve been doing 90% or more in cash each slate for a while now. I can tell you that for me it’s very profitable and I don’t have to spend a ton of time trying to make multiple lineups and throwing darts. I just make one lineup and more times then not I walk away with a nice profit.

    Essentially my philosophy also.

    I also enter that same lineup into all of the smaller GPPs ($0.25 – $4) just in case it goes off, but overall it is a comfortable strategy for me that yields positive results more often than not.

  • jimmyd1507

    @johnny said...

    DraftKings has 50/50s 4 players at $10 and top 2 win $18.

    Say you enter 1,000 contests at $10 = $10,000 in fees

    If you win 50.1% = 501 wins * $18 prize = $9,018

    You need to win 556 wins = $10,008 to break even = 55.6% with the rake in this contest.

    How do you figure the rake makes no difference in the win percentage needed to make money?

    Because if you finish in the top 50.1% (you are either 1st or 2nd in your hypothetical game), you will win $18 EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    So, again, you only have to beat 50.1% of people to make money. Do that every week, and the rake could be 90% and it wouldn’t matter, you’re still making money.

    You can look at ROI down the road after 10,000 contests, but that’s not what I am saying. I am saying, on any given week, if you are better than half the players you are playing against, you’re going to win. If you are better than half the players you are playing against every week, you’re going to win money every week.

    What’s the ROI for being in the top 51% every week in 50/50s over a season? Just curious.

  • Linsanity88

    @jimmyd1507 said...

    Because if you finish in the top 50.1% (you are either 1st or 2nd in your hypothetical game), you will win $18 EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    So, again, you only have to beat 50.1% of people to make money. Do that every week, and the rake could be 90% and it wouldn’t matter, you’re still making money.

    You can look at ROI down the road after 10,000 contests, but that’s not what I am saying. I am saying, on any given week, if you are better than half the players you are playing against, you’re going to win. If you are better than half the players you are playing against every week, you’re going to win money every week.

    What’s the ROI for being in the top 51% every week in 50/50s over a season? Just curious.

    Math is hard, LOL.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Essentially what jimmy d is trying to say is if you finish in the top 50.1% in every 50/50 you play in, you will win 100% of the time, which is right. What the other people are saying is that if you win 50.1% of the time, you will be a losing player because you have to win 55.6% of the time due to rake.

    I have never met anyone to win 100% of their 50/50 contests or even anything close to that. If you are a 65% winner in cash games over tens of thousands of cash games sample size, you are absolutely killing it.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    “What’s the ROI for being in the top 51% every week in 50/50s over a season? Just curious.”

    Well, what do 50/50’s pay out to winners like $1.85 on a $1 played? So you would have a ROI of 85%.

  • jrgum3

    I think its simple really I always play more cash in any sport that I play because you have a better chance to finish in the money playing cash games. Thus, I allocate more of my bankroll to cash games because I feel they’re safer than gpp’s. You may not win much but its less risky playing cash games than gpp so that’s why I stick to playing more cash than gpp.

  • headChopper

    RG Contributor (OG Status)

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    Well one great thing about cash games is so that you’re not sitting there at 1:53 pm on Sunday knowing that you are drawing dead in all GPP’s cause you don’t have any Stefon Diggs.

  • pomppomp

    I’m not a heavy user but for the guy that plays hundreds of thousands in action every week, your frequent player points must be a consideration for why to play the “cash”games also. I’m sure those guys use their points toward free entry fees. Of course they’d have to be winning players in order to keep up that level of action but the free points can add up to thousands of $ over time, even if they only broke even.

    I don’t get anyone playing the double ups because of the higher rake, but h2h or 50/50s carry just a 10% rake. What I don’t like about them is sometimes you’ll have 20 or 30 guys in a 100 man 50/50 with the same lineup. To me that’s akin to a guy having more than 1 account on the site so I think the sites need to limit entries into such contests to maybe 5 with the same lineup.

  • monaco712

    I understand the OPs point and i’m beginning to agree. Its very difficult
    to win substantial money in cash games unless you invest a lot.
    If you play 3 $10 cash games and go 2 for 3 you net a whopping 6
    bucks for risking 30 and winning 60% of your contest consistantly
    is no easy task.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    Building cash lineups takes a different mindset and is a different skill than playing GPP’s.
    Some people are just wired for that sort of lineup building (or they have projections/research that are) so it makes sense for them, and it comes down to personal preference…and as others have noted, you should play whatever contests/style you are profitable in.

    Personally, the rise in optimizers/lineup sellers and what not created a cesspool in the FD cash games and it was no longer worth it. It wasn’t beating 50.1% of players it was having to beat a couple professionally built lineups because that made up 12-25% of the lu’s in a given contest and they always were around/creating the cash line.

    Admittedly, that was on FD. Never played much cash on DK. Maybe I should give it a try at some point, but I’ve been okay settling in my routine without it.

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