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  • awesemo

    • 1

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #1

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x5

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x3

      2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Hey I know that Fanduel is considering changes regarding it’s head to head games and I wanted to make a post here to build more support for a method of restricting players from abuse of head to heads.

    Fanduel made a good step by introducing a 250 game limit for the lower stakes recently, but what I didn’t realize at the time is that this is proportionally less effective at the less popular sports like NHL, where there are fewer contests available. In particular there is one player who exploits the rules more than most. Yesterday I decided to conduct a test where I would post head to head contests at the $5 level and see how many I would have to post before this player would stop scooping every single one of my contests and I could finally play some other players in the head to head games. Here are the results: http://i.imgur.com/BHreNRs.png . I had to post more than 75 games before I could finally get him to stop joining my games and get other people to join them. This is not within the capabilities of an average player.

    I think Fanduel is doing a lot of great things, and introducing some change to restrict head to head abuse could be a great next step to improving the player experience on their site.

  • 0monstertruxrallyman0

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @billsfan777 said...

    Monstertruxrallyman isn’t the person at fault here. In Fanduel’s rules he has the ability to scoop everyone’s games. If he feels an edge, by all means he should do it. I would do the same thing in his position, despite it being bad for the long term survival of DFS. The fact that fanduel permits this is the real issue here.

    I think people who don’t want to get scooped just play a different type of game like 50/50 or league, but the total number of games played is higher because I am willing to play such a high volume relative to the median user.

    if I couldn’t play at least $25k-$30k in action a night, it would be extremely difficult for me to justify playing and FD would lose out on $2k-$3k in revenue a day from me. I don’t see how that volume would get replaced by other users. It’s just a displacement of profits from one pocket to others who are willing to post H2H and take a portion of the action at a similar level of skill.

    Note that this is not an issue in sports that are more mature and group of players cannot realistic dominate anything because the skill level is much more symmetric. NBA/NFL is a good example of this where the only real battles are for posting $5ks/$10ks because they get lifted so infrequently. So it comes down to the same issue – if you don’t want to get scooped, get better.

  • Putz

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    I think people who don’t want to get scooped just play a different type of game like 50/50 or league, but the total number of games played is higher because I am willing to play such a high volume relative to the median user.

    if I couldn’t play at least $25k-$30k in action a night, it would be extremely difficult for me to justify playing and FD would lose out on $2k-$3k in revenue a day from me. I don’t see how that volume would get replaced by other users. It’s just a displacement of profits from one pocket to others who are willing to post H2H and take a portion of the action at a similar level of skill.

    Play more $5k H2H

  • dude_abides7

    @billsfan777 said...

    Monstertruxrallyman isn’t the person at fault here. In Fanduel’s rules he has the ability to scoop everyone’s games. If he feels an edge, by all means he should do it. I would do the same thing in his position, despite it being bad for the long term survival of DFS. The fact that fanduel permits this is the real issue here.

    Agreed. And I am not saying he is at fault for anything. He is playing within the rules and he has the right, just like all of us to make as much out of that as he can.

    Yes, the responsibility does fall to the sites. What I am saying is that in lieu of that what can we as players do to help protect the long term interests so that we actually have DFS a year from now?

    The premise of “let the sites regulate” is a failed one. They had that opportunity, and they failed and now the repercussions are going to be measures that probably very few of us like. So I personally don’t want to leave it entirely up to FD and DK to fix things.

    As players we have a voice. I want to protect @0monstertruxrallyman0 and his right to be able to make a living on DFS as long as he’s playing by the rules, which I have no doubt he is. That said, I also want to protect the ecosystem of DFS and that means protecting the little guy. Whether he deserves it or not is irrelevant. The future of DFS mandates measures be put in place.

    I for one would rather those changes come from the player voice than a pesky AG who doesn’t understand half of what DFS is about. I don’t think it is Utopian that a company like FD act before they are forced to.

    I don’t know…maybe it is just pie in the sky. I can certainly understand if people don’t agree with me. I readily admit that what we want and what is possible are two, entirely different things.

  • Putz

    Greed and/or vulnerability leads to abuse which leads to regulation or nothing at all.

  • 0monstertruxrallyman0

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    dude_abides is a very thoughtful guy.

    However…
    Putz? anything going on up there? Lunch time yet?

  • Putz

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    dude_abides is a very thoughtful guy.

    However…
    Putz? anything going on up there? Lunch time yet?

    That’s all? Dude is just saying things I said 1-2 years ago, so no need to repeat.

    I see too many generalizations and strawman in your comments. There used to always be $5k posted on FD during football season. Take those to get your volume since you are only taking 1-2 of them per day. At least that is what was described to me when FD limited CFB action below $25 this year.

    On the other hand, your comment reeks of the sense of entitlement that is wrong with the industry… “If I can’t play $25k-$35k per day I’m going to take my ball and go home. So the rest of you just need to build better lineups!”

    Seriously? Where are you going? Double up on DK and return here full circle saying you can’t get $50k-$70k in action because regulation won’t allow you to scoop as many noobs at lower buy ins or can’t use scripts?

  • Putz

    Also, you were part of the “0” name crew exploiting that FD H2H lobby loophole.

    As a new user, how did did happen to come upon that, by chance, did you have another high volume user name before that one, a friend told you? Just curious.

    I’m asking because it reinforces the point that people will exploit anything and everything until regulation corrects it. As dude and I have repeatedly stated in various ways, the sites have done a poor job self policing, particularly with the high volume 1%. While you are technically playing within the site’s rules, we can’t fault you for it, but we all know that is not what is best for the industry.

  • dude_abides7

    @Putz said...

    As dude and I have repeatedly stated in various ways, the sites have done a poor job self policing, particularly with the high volume 1%. While you are technically playing within the site’s rules, we can’t fault you for it, but we all know that is not what is best for the industry.

    I think that is it right there. I have ZERO faith in FD right now. This did not come to that opinion lightly. Simply stated, they earned this mistrust. Many here, Putz included, had been screaming from the rafters that some of the things FD failed to address would come back and haunt them. We, the loyal users, were an asset they failed to listen to. Some people did get a little nuts with their theories and the site apologists pointed to those extreme ideas to discount all the things that were being said. Scripts were real, H2H suto-scoop was real, abuse…was real.

    Now, all the sudden, I am supposed to believe that FD is going to care about this? All they cared about was their bottom line. I am not naive. I understand a business is supposed to make money and owe responsibility to their investors, buy even the most objective viewer would look at FD and DK over the last year and shake their head at how many things they did wrong.

    Their incompetence and asleep at the wheel ineptness nearly brought the industry down…and it still might. Their process was completely reactionary as supposed to getting out ahead of the problem. Once again, if they would have simply listened to 99% of their customer base as supposed to preference catering to a half dozen guys in the industry, none of us would be talking about losing DFS.

  • 0monstertruxrallyman0

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @Putz said...

    Seriously? Where are you going? Double up on DK and return here full circle saying you can’t get $50k-$70k in action because regulation won’t allow you to scoop as many noobs at lower buy ins or can’t use scripts?

    I’m not being entitled. I’m just talking economic reality. If I can’t get that size on, my day job is way more profitable , so it becomes very difficult for me to justify the time I put into this as a hobby. I stopped playing multiple sports because of the time commitment. It’s binary to me. That’s all. This is fun but it’s not going to be around forever and people need to realize that – poker players are the only group that really have the right attitude on DFS i think.

    No one told me about anything. I spent 5 seconds looking at how the lobby was set-up and how it worked when I was signing up and that seemed like a pretty good idea. Why can’t I have come to that conclusion on my own. Some people quickly copied me but I was the first (I think) to really utilize it. Everything is not a crew and conspiracy just because you didn’t think of it.

    The 1% of players work incredibly hard and are very intelligent and devoted people. Why are you so critical of them? This 1% rhetoric is really just a defense mechanism to justify your mediocrity no? DFS is one of the most meritocratic things that I can think of. There is no entitlement anywhere if you look at the leader board.

    How was lunch?

  • dude_abides7

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    The 1% of players work incredibly hard and are very intelligent and devoted people. Why are you so critical of them?

    I for one do not discount that. However, the sites decided to cater to you as supposed to protecting the long term interest of the industry and the other 99% of players. That was/is a recipe for failure and most assuredly regulation that none of us (all players big and small) are not going to like.

    You stated it yourself man, you don’t think DFS is gonna be around forever (which I am assuming you mean as ‘much longer’). I think this is a bad position to take. Dude, you may be right…but I for one and willing to fight for measures that ensure you are wrong there. If that means I support some of the unpopular restrictions being proposed by a clueless AG, then so be it. It is an end to a means that protects the interests of everyone, even you…if you can convince yourself to look at this from a longer lens and not a ‘right now’ view.

  • 0monstertruxrallyman0

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    This forum is all about backseat driving and double standards. It was brought to my attention and concerned me, but I’m not going to look at it again so please feel free to send me a private message if you have any concerns. I’m always happy to talk in that medium.

    It’s like if depositing $10 on a DFS site makes one qualified to become an AG or run a DFS site.

  • Putz

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    I’m not being entitled. I’m just talking economic reality. If I can’t get that size on, my day job is way more profitable , so it becomes very difficult for me to justify the time I put into this as a hobby. It’s binary to me. That’s all. This is fun but it’s not going to be around forever and people need to realize that – poker players are the only group that really have the right attitude on DFS i think.

    No one told me about anything. I spent 5 seconds looking at how the lobby was set-up and how it worked when I was signing up and that seemed like a pretty good idea. Why can’t I have come to that conclusion on my own.

    The 1% of players work incredibly hard and are very intelligent and devoted people. Why are you so critical of them? This 1% rhetoric is really just a defense mechanism to justify your mediocrity no? DFS is one of the most meritocratic things that I can think of. There is no entitlement anywhere if you look at the leader board.

    How was lunch?

    Lol, back to the BBL and “those who complain must suck or are only mediocre” 1% entitlement mantra? The later has been disproven quite often.

    It’s a profitable hobby for me as well, but only within that mediocre profitable range to receive a 1099 every year.

    Just think, DFS could be around forever if it weren’t for greed. See my previous comments on this.

    Also, some of those 1% work hard, some are really good, some are extremely profitable, but some do not work hard, some just come with larger bankrolls, some aren’t profitable or are just barely, and others just exploit things until caught, whether against the rules or not. Facts.

  • dude_abides7

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    It’s binary to me. That’s all.

    Some would read this as you don’t care. That is not going to be a popular position to take although it is certainly a fair and honest one to have. I respect you skill man, I just wish you realized how much more money you would have 20 years from now if DFS stays around as supposed to being non-existent in 6-12 months.

    Not being argumentative man…It’s just someone like yourself could have real and measurable influence if you cared enough about DFS, embraced certain measures meant to protect the ecosystem to want to ensure its future. Right now you are acting like an oil tycoon.

    This industry means a lot more, to a lot of individuals than something that could be summed up as “binary”.

  • Putz

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    This forum is all about backseat driving and double standards. It was brought to my attention and concerned me, but I’m not going to look at it again so please feel free to send me a private message if you have any concerns. I’m always happy to talk in that medium.

    It’s like if depositing $10 on a DFS site makes one qualified to become an AG or run a DFS site.

    Please PM me the answer to the “0” name question when you can. Thanks.

  • giantsfan12345

    @0monstertruxrallyman0 said...

    I’m not being entitled. I’m just talking economic reality. If I can’t get that size on, my day job is way more profitable , so it becomes very difficult for me to justify the time I put into this as a hobby. It’s binary to me. That’s all. This is fun but it’s not going to be around forever and people need to realize that – poker players are the only group that really have the right attitude on DFS i think.

    No one told me about anything. I spent 5 seconds looking at how the lobby was set-up and how it worked when I was signing up and that seemed like a pretty good idea. Why can’t I have come to that conclusion on my own.

    The 1% of players work incredibly hard and are very intelligent and devoted people. Why are you so critical of them? This 1% rhetoric is really just a defense mechanism to justify your mediocrity no? DFS is one of the most meritocratic things that I can think of. There is no entitlement anywhere if you look at the leader board.

    How was lunch?

    What is your day job?

  • Putz

    @dude_abides7 said...

    This industry means a lot more, to a lot of individuals than something that could be summed up as “binary”.

    As with any industry, greed does not care to see things outside of profitable or not profitable. Altruistic folks like us who enjoy profits but also want for the “greater good” are the antithesis of greedy folks.

  • Bam79

    What X or Y site does with their business, is 100% up to them. Whether that be cater to the 99%, or the 0.00001%. Period. Industries don’t have “interests” – people do – and there’s no such thing as “protecting the best interests of everyone else.” That’s just egotistical nonsense.

    Don’t like the rules? Don’t play. Play somewhere else. Start your own site. There are lots of options.

    I don’t play on FD because I think the scoring, for hockey at least, is stupid..I’m never going to suggest it’s in FD’s best interests to change it..I patronize DK and go about my day…

  • Putz

    @Bam79 said...

    What X or Y site does with their business, is 100% up to them. Whether that be cater to the 99%, or the 0.00001%. Period. Industries don’t have “interests” – people do – and there’s no such thing as “we need to protect the best interests of everyone else.” That’s just egotistical nonsense.

    Don’t like the rules? Don’t play. Play somewhere else. Start your own site. There are lots of options.

    Since you have only been here a month, I recommend you read the news for the last 9 months to a year, and let us know if you feel the same way after you discover people have been playing by different sets of rules.

  • Bam79

    @Putz said...

    let us know if you feel the same way after you discover people have been playing by different sets of rules.

    I don’t recall that being mentioned here..?

    Even if that’s a fact – it doesn’t change anything. No one has a right to play DFS on FD, let alone a right to WIN and that seems to be the thinly-veiled complaint here..

    “People aren’t playing by the rules over there!’‘ = Stop playing over there.

  • BeltWieldindad

    @Bam79 said...

    I don’t recall that being mentioned here..?

    Even if that’s a fact – it doesn’t change anything. No one has a right to play DFS on FD, let alone a right to WIN and that seems to be the thinly-veiled complaint here..

    “People aren’t playing by the rules over there!’‘ = Stop playing over there.

    thats exactly the mentality that will get DFS highly regulated and less profitable for all of us. keep drinking the koolaid.

  • dude_abides7

    @Bam79 said...

    No one has a right to play DFS on FD, let alone a right to WIN and that seems to be the thinly-veiled complaint here..

    Right to win? Where are inferring that?

    Where do you get, “I’d like DFS to be legal 12 months from now” to “I have a right to win”?

  • Bam79

    @BeltWieldindad said...

    thats exactly the mentality that will get DFS highly regulated and less profitable for all of us. keep drinking the koolaid.

    Suggesting that outside regulation must be implemented is what will get DFS highly regulated..

  • BeltWieldindad

    @Bam79 said...

    Suggesting that outside regulation must be implemented is what will get DFS highly regulated..

    never suggested that, glad to see your reading comprehension is on point. All of my suggests are actually the opposite, I don’t want the government involved at all, and would like to see the sites self-regulate, but instead they choose not to regulate which is what has the government sniffing around.

  • dude_abides7

    @Bam79 said...

    Suggesting that outside regulation must be implemented is what will get DFS highly regulated..

    Man..you really have some catching up to do bud. I suggest taking a rainy day and a six-pack sometime soon and read the forums before you come to conclusions like the above. You are simply misinformed.

  • dude_abides7

    @BeltWieldindad said...

    never suggested that, glad to see your reading comprehension is on point. All of my suggests are actually the opposite, I don’t want the government involved at all, and would like to see the sites self-regulate, but instead they choose not to regulate which is what has the government sniffing around.

    I think we are being trolled Belt. lol

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