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  • dictator_teddy

    • 173

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    I’ve been playing at Yahoo since they rolled out the DFS, and have noticed certain accounts always have identical lineups. I have tracked them pretty closely in H2H and 50/50 games, and just wanted others to be aware of this. I would not make these accusations unless I was very certain of it. I understand that sharing lineups is not against the rules, but wanted others to be aware of this. The following accounts have identical lineups 99% of the time. Sometimes, there will be one player that is different, but all three accounts almost always have the exact same 8 players. Not sure if this is already common knowledge, but just wanted others to be aware of this.

    birdwings / Daut44 / dihac

  • kbn121

    any update?

  • ckamins87

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    Oddly enough i accidentally experienced this first hand on FD in 3 separate 535 3-mans today where all 3 of the names mentioned were in each. Wasnt trying to play against the same lineup in 3 matches, but worked in my favor today i guess as i won all 3 lol. But in general, I think the whole same lineup under different screen names is extremely shady and will be cause for banning soon enough. Either play under one name and share the winnings (like cheddarbisque/troll4mvp/westbrook4mvp/etc), or start making unique lineups. Sharing info with friends is expected and not preventable, but playing the same lineups under different ids every day should a case of multi-account.

  • Mphst18

    While I respect the yahoo rep for chiming in the sites know who butter their bread and will provide the politically correct response of were looking into it which really means lets just hope people stop talking about this and it goes away. It doesn’t take this long to look at the historical data which they own and see what their other customers see but I’m sure the other part of their investigation is the analysis of the rake they would lose for actually enforcing their TOS vs these individuals vs the rake lost of people who would stop playing if they do nothing.

  • SteveM

    @Mphst18 said...

    While I respect the yahoo rep for chiming in the sites know who butter their bread and will provide the politically correct response of were looking into it which really means lets just hope people stop talking about this and it goes away. It doesn’t take this long to look at the historical data which they own and see what their other customers see but I’m sure the other part of their investigation is the analysis of the rake they would lose for actually enforcing their TOS vs these individuals vs the rake lost of people who would stop playing if they do nothing.

    Yep. The rep’s purpose here is to attempt to placate the unwashed masses. Any “investigation” is just for show and will undoubtedly give the admitted colluders a meaningless warning and slap on the wrist while allowing them to continue playing (and paying more rake than the rest of us). It’s a sad commentary on the state of DFS that it takes other player to sniff this stuff out and complain before the sites will even pretend to do anything about it.

  • awesemo

    • 1

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #1

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    I’m not sure about this narrative you guys are creating about rake. Right now Yahoo is relatively small on the market compared to where they could get. I would guess that they will take policies more focused on growth rather than immediate profit.

  • tbuzz2234

    You would think Yahoo plays it smart and tries to grow while other sites pay a lot of legal fees for the foreseeable future.

    I’m not a big player and have all my games taken by this group. The highest I’ve posted is $25 and usually around $5. While this is my own fault, I do think this group is a bunch of idiots. Yahoo should add a matchup blocker.

  • Mphst18

    The matchup blockers are just more smokescreen from the sites. If these collusion teams have more than 3 members dks matchup blocker is basically just a hey look we try to be responsible but also allow a back door for people to exploit.

    As far as yahoo goes they want their cake and eat it to, so if these issues gets buried they get to have their rake and growth cause it’s either let them play on yahoo and get some of their money or they will just put their yahoo business somewhere else. So if the self policing that finds obvious act against TOS is kept quiet or brushed off with “we’re looking into it but we take thre integrity of the games very seriousally” then they can go back to bau.

  • Mphst18

    Forgot to mention look at the Mir and daut44 who got removed from
    The kings cup for obvious collusion. What was the real penalty, they got their entry fee back and still play on dk, so the message is hey guys try not to make it obvious but if people make enough noise we won’t really punish you might just take you out of a contest but give you your money back. Who knows they probably even give them some type of bonus to not upset them from playing thier large volumes daily.

  • deactivated60279

    @Mphst18 said...

    Forgot to mention look at the Mir and daut44 who got removed from
    The kings cup for obvious collusion. What was the real penalty, they got their entry fee back and still play on dk, so the message is hey guys try not to make it obvious but if people make enough noise we won’t really punish you might just take you out of a contest but give you your money back. Who knows they probably even give them some type of bonus to not upset them from playing thier large volumes daily.

    So, what do people in this forum think the sites should do about this? In fairness to them, I’m not sure there is an easy solution. On the other hand, sweeping it under the rug is worse as we’ve seen this past year. I’ve heard there’s gonna be a posting here by a rep. I hope it happens.

  • YoungFischer

    This is ruining the H2H player experience on the site and will eventually destroy H2H action.

    I am sure most players don’t mind playing a few of their games against this group’s lineup. But not when it’s every single game across all buy-in levels. This situation is far worse than a single player with a large bankroll scooping everything since this has the same result with the additional appearance of collusion. Imagine you are a newer’ish player looking for some H2H action. You unwittingly post a few games to the lobby and they get taken by a few different people. Only after lock do you realize the people all have the same lineup. You go on to lose. How are you going to feel? Cheated. Suckered. Fooled. And broke.

    The people involved are deserving of scorn. Yahoo is even more culpable by doing nothing to help affected users who continue to have horrible user experiences as a result.

  • dude_abides7

    @Greenie222 said...

    So, what do people in this forum think the sites should do about this? In fairness to them, I’m not sure there is an easy solution. On the other hand, sweeping it under the rug is worse as we’ve seen this past year. I’ve heard there’s gonna be a posting here by a rep. I hope it happens.

    Well, I think that is it man. In the case of Yahoo, they came on here over a week ago and said they take this stuff seriously and would investigate at back to us. How did that go?

    I know this might not be a simple, cut and dry subject but you can’t create the managed expectation that you’re working toward a resolution only to back away from it. And a week is too long. Wars have been won and loss in less time.

    I personally find it hard to believe that Yahoo was not aware this was occurring. That said, I believe the rep that chimed in here was likely unaware and honestly thought he could pass this up the ladder and get an actionable response. He likely got stonewalled, just like we are now.

    These guys in the H2H games are doing what the sites are letting them get away with. Honestly, why should they stop? It is not their responsibility to manage the fairness of these contests and the user experience for all. It is the sites’ responsibility.

    If they choose to drag their feet or not react at all, then you have your answer. If that bothers you then pull your money from their site or (and this is what I have done) stop playing the games that are affected by these non-monitored (unethical??) play tactics.

  • SteveM

    Yahoo rep – where is the update you promised?

    Or are you still patiently waiting for our short attention spans to get distracted by whatever the next DFS scandal is going to be? Shouldn’t be long. This industry is a joke because it is run by morons with an open contempt for their customers. I refuse to play at Yahoo.

  • DanielHaight

    • Yahoo Representative

    Hey guys—due to privacy concerns I will not be releasing specifics around our investigation. I will say that I have reached out directly to users whom we suspected participated in some sort of lineup sharing. I sent a warning that we believe this is against the current “unsportsmanlike behavior” clause in our TOS and that we will suspend/block users who continue to violate the TOS. Furthermore, we will be updating the TOS shortly to explicitly list lineup sharing in the improper conduct section.

    I agree with some on this thread that there is a line between sharing research/analysis and actual lineups, but if the end result is repeatedly having the same lineups across multiple accounts then that is something we cannot allow. We are erring on the side of caution when it comes to consumer protection issues.

    We recognize we may lose some short-term revenue as a result, but we strongly believe it is absolutely the right thing to do in order to build a sustainable long-term business.

  • hotpants

    @DanielHaight said...

    We are erring on the side of caution when it comes to consumer protection issues

    Bravo!

    Take notes FD and DK….

  • catmando

    bulid better lineups..however these guys who are so called PRO players and go to the big events yet need to try to do things like this in small games must mean trouble in the kitty

  • dude_abides7

    @catmando said...

    bulid better lineups..however these guys who are so called PRO players and go to the big events yet need to try to do things like this in small games must mean trouble in the kitty

    Build better loopholes.

  • srolleDFS

    @DanielHaight said...

    Hey guys—due to privacy concerns I will not be releasing specifics around our investigation. I will say that I have reached out directly to users whom we suspected participated in some sort of lineup sharing. I sent a warning that we believe this is against the current “unsportsmanlike behavior” clause in our TOS and that we will suspend/block users who continue to violate the TOS. Furthermore, we will be updating the TOS shortly to explicitly list lineup sharing in the improper conduct section.

    I agree with some on this thread that there is a line between sharing research/analysis and actual lineups, but if the end result is repeatedly having the same lineups across multiple accounts then that is something we cannot allow. We are erring on the side of caution when it comes to consumer protection issues.

    We recognize we may lose some short-term revenue as a result, but we strongly believe it is absolutely the right thing to do in order to build a sustainable long-term business.

    do you think having a rule that has no bright line is sustainable long-term? Its not even settled law whether DFS is even legal. How is there a settled definition of what is “sportsmanlike”? I dont think there is one in DFS. I frankly dont think working together with a friend is “unsportsmanlike”. And I know alot of people that agree with that 100%. So why does yahoo get to define “sportsmanship” ex post facto in response to the RG troll mob?

    in nba, i do minutes, you do fp/minute stats. we combine our work. use the same lineup optimizer, and now we are cheaters? I dont think so.

  • dude_abides7

    @srolleDFS said...

    in nba, i do minutes, you do fp/minute stats. we combine our work. use the same lineup optimizer, and now we are cheaters? I dont think so.

    Teaming up for research and teaming up to monopolize 50/50 contests or a H2H lobby are two entirely different things.

  • Mphst18

    And if you think they dont split their money you are naive. You think they put all this work in and then just let the luck of whom plays against which team meber determine one may make money and the other lose money.

  • srolleDFS

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Teaming up for research and teaming up to monopolize 50/50 contests or a H2H lobby are two entirely different things.

    If a site wants to make a rule about entry limits, it should. Don’t think that is the issue that yahoo is calling “unsportsmanlike”.

    If you are saying that daut et co. should generally be punished for just just generally over-doing it.. ok. i guess i disagree. obviously, daut et co. went too far, and are going to get curtailed. I don’t understand how they couldn’t see that angle before getting shot.

    I think yahoo should just make a new rule so people actually know wtf the rules are rather than going on a fishing trip into their Terms of Service.

  • srolleDFS

    @Mphst18 said...

    And if you think they dont split their money you are naive. You think they put all this work in and then just let the luck of whom plays against which team meber determine one may make money and the other lose money.

    your argument is that you are sure they split their money…

    because its the only reasonable thing to do…

    and you are mad they are doing the reasonable thing?

    are you kidding me?

  • dude_abides7

    @srolleDFS said...

    I think yahoo should just make a new rule so people actually know wtf the rules are rather than going on a fishing trip into their Terms of Service.

    Every DFS should provide this! And I agree with you they do not.

    So what does that tell you?

    It tells me that they need their TOS to remain relatively vague so they can let their high volume friends pull in that rake.

  • Bando28

    Dan,

    You should see if RG will sticky a post with this info in it for those who are not following this thread so people are aware that a TOS change is happening on Yahoo.

  • Mphst18

    My factual allegation is they collude, whether that be to gain EV or get unsuspecting players to play someone who they don’t think is one of them but is is up to you to choose.

    The fact is they violate the TOS and as correctly pointed out the TOS are vague to allow these high volume friends of the sites to get away with what they can as it doesn’t hurt the sites only the small players.

    One day you will wake up and realize the sites are truly run by the high volume players, the sites will cater to them in anyway until self policing finally becomes so loud and noisy that they are forced to do something about it.

  • YoungFischer

    To be fair, Yahoo DFS has been around for less than one year. In fact when Yahoo first began offering DFS, their software lacked the ability to mass edit/export rosters and mass enter/create contests. It was a nearly impossible task to play more than about 30 games at a time. So at that time it made sense for a small group of players to share a single lineup while individually managing their own games.

    That excuse disappeared about 6 months ago when Yahoo upgraded their software to allow for mass edit features. Unfortunately, behavior once learned can be difficult to break. Since Daut44 seems to be reading this thread, I respectfully ask that you re-consider the ethics of your current activity and consider another, higher road forward.

    Yahoo, you need explicit rules and software in place to enforce them. I suggest the ability to limit/block H2H activity as well as software which identifies and warns people attempting to circumvent those blocks by using multiple accounts.

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