Randy Brown: I Don't Think There's Ever Going to Be Another Dennis Rodman
We sat down with former NBA player and coach Randy Brown to get his thoughts on his time with the Chicago Bulls, where he was part of their championship era and subsequent building years.
Randy also shares his thoughts on the current NBA landscape, including how Lonzo Ball fits into the Bulls’ narrative.
View the full transcript here:
What were your fondest memories from being part of that Bulls’ roster for the second “three-peat” between 1996-98?
Although there’s a lot of great memories, because I’m originally from Chicago, the finest memory I have is just playing for the Bulls.
That was a childhood dream of mine so, to win an NBA championship in front of my family and friends was the most gratifying moment.
I just remember looking in the stands and seeing my family just as happy as I was.
For a Chicago kid to win the NBA championship right in their backyard was a special moment.
What was it like training with the likes of Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman compared with other rosters throughout your NBA career?
I got drafted by the Sacramento Kings, and I played my first four years in Sacramento.
I played with some great players there as well including Mitch Richmond, Wayman Tisdale, Lionel Simmons, Anthony Bonner, Spud Webb, Walt Williams and Brian Grant, just to name a few.
They prepared me for the Bulls’ championship runs.
I signed up as a free agent at the right time. Michael had just come back, the Bulls had just lost a playoff game to Orlando Magic, so he was upset that they lost a playoff game to Orlando.
I came at the right time, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman and Toni Kukoč were all in their prime and we were hungry.
We were destined for a championship, and I really didn’t understand what I was getting myself into from day one. Those guys were like machines.
Those guys WORKED, and I had to get on their level. I wasn’t prepared for the intensity level that came with just practice with Michael, Scottie, Dennis and even the likes of Ron Harper and Steve Kerr.
I was surprised that all these guys practice all the time.
So, I learned a lot from all of them. They all took me under their wing, and it was a special moment for me playing with some Hall of Fame players.
How tough was it after a day of practice?
Phil Jackson was really good with us. Being a former player, he understood what practice was all about and it became a running joke that our practices basically were harder than the games.
It’s funny, we’d have a game to 20 and we would never make it to 20 because both teams were very competitive.
There were defensive players on both sides of the ball and that’s why I said it was so intense. It was a grueling hour and a half.
We got to the games, and we were like ‘wow, this is easier than practice.’ So, practice became a staple for us.
We were lucky that we didn’t have a lot of injuries and like I said before, I was shocked to see one through 15 guys practicing so hard, but this prepared us for the games.
Where did the ‘What time is it’ chant originate from? Whose idea was it to create this huddle before every game?
It wasn’t my idea. It started with the first three championship teams by Cliff Levingston.
When I got to the Bulls, he was no longer there, and I interviewed for the ‘what time is it’ chant and I won.
I didn’t know I was going to be doing this a thousand times, but I took heart to it. It was an opportunity.
Before it began, I gave a little speech to the players before I chanted that out. It gave me a good minute to address my thoughts to the team.
So, Michael and Scottie appointed me as that person and the next thing you know for the next five years, that was my voice.
It was clear to everyone that the 1998 season would be the last for this dynasty, had Phil Jackson been given another year contract do you think the ‘four-peat’ would have been achieved?
It was weird because after that season there was a strike. If there wasn’t a strike, Phil Jackson probably would have come back because he was hurting physically during that season.
He talked about having surgery and possibly not coaching anymore, so the NBA going on strike pushed him to say, ‘let me go ahead and do the surgery while there’s no basketball at all’.
We clearly would have won another championship. We were in our prime, we were healthy, and we were hungry.
The two years Michael went away to play baseball, that’s two more possible championships. During those winning seasons, we were mentally tired, but somehow during every season, we’d find our groove to championship.
So, yes, if Phil Jackson hadn’t had that surgery, Michael comes back, we have the same core and we get a chance to defend our championship until somebody knocks us off.
Was it a shame that you didn’t get to defend the championship with the same core?
Yeah, it was disappointing, but I can’t speak for all the guys. We had a reunion back in January of last year and yes, it was kind of surprising and disappointing that we couldn’t defend our championship.
I don’t think this has ever happened in sports where a championship team is just dismantled and not given an opportunity to defend that title.
It was disappointing. For me, I took it for granted. I thought that machine would be together for a long time and to come into the following season, which it was only 50 games and not seeing any of my teammates was weird.
I was just talking to Toni Kukoč the other day about it. The only people who were left were me, Toni, Harper, and Dickey Simpkins. So, it was disappointing that we weren’t giving a real opportunity to defend what was ours.
You became a full-time starter on the Chicago Bulls when the likes of Jordan left, what was this like?
Coming from Sacramento, I was already a part-time starter but coming to Chicago, I knew what I was getting myself into.
A lot of naysayers didn’t want me to sign for the Bulls because they knew it was going to be limited minutes.
But I was okay with that because I wanted to learn from greatness. I wanted to learn from Dennis Rodman. I wanted to learn from Ron Harper. I wanted to sit and talk to Steve Kerr.
From playing in Chicago in my backyard to playing for the Bulls was a dream come true, so, I was ready for it. But to see those guys leave and then me becoming a starter was gratifying.
But if I had to choose, I would absolutely trade in being a starter for more championships.
I got to play more but we lost a little bit more and it wasn’t fun, but I fulfilled a lot of childhood dreams by being a three-time champion.
Did the new crop of players struggle to live up to expectations?
It was tough. A lot of talent went out the window and we had a new coach in Tim Floyd, who was a really good college coach, but it was a different time.
There were only 50 games in the season, and I remember the first day of practice, we didn’t have enough players to practice, which is kind of weird.
It was a difficult transition from going to a team that won 72 games to a team that lost 40.
All along, it’s amazing that the fan base never changed. The Bulls fans are so loyal, and they appreciated hard work and understood what we were up against.
We didn’t have a lot of talent at the time, but they appreciated the fact that we came out and tried our hardest in front of 25,000 people.
The outcome wasn’t always good but I got a chance to experience both ends of the stick.
Lonzo has finally worked through over 1,000 days of knee injuries, how has he performed this season for Chicago? Will he ever be the same again?
Physically, I can’t say if he will get back to that. I hope he will.
I think it’s an amazing story. It reminds me so much of Derrick Rose. Lonzo had every opportunity and reason to say, ‘hey, I’m not doing anything anymore’ and this kid continued to rehab and come back and play at this level that he’s playing at now.
A lot of people that aren’t professional athletes probably need to sit down and really understand what happened with this kid mentally.
Mentally, you could have checked out and stopped. So, to see him come back and play at that level, you see what the Chicago Bulls would have been before he got hurt.
He’s a true point guard because he defends, is a team guy and gets the ball to the right people. Zach LaVine would be great for him.
I’m happy for him that he’s back, it stopped the Bull’s clock a little bit for the last couple of years because they were without him.
But I saw him the other day and I just looked at him like ‘I’m a fan for life’, for this kid coming back the way he is makes you truly appreciate the mental toughness.
If Lonzo can stay healthy, how much of a difference maker can he be for this Chicago Bulls team?
I’m praying and hoping that he gets through the rest of the season because over the summer, it’s going to be different for him with no more rehabbing.
It’s going to be a summer for him to get even stronger, and if that happens, you’re going to get that point guard that the Bulls coveted for years.
We were able to land Lonzo and it’s too bad that he got injured but I’m thinking he’s 85/90% right now but if he gets a little bit better than this, you get back to a point where the Bulls are relevant again, because he’s the talk of the town.
With him coming back and putting on a uniform, because a lot of players would have mentally checked out by now. He kept going. He kept pushing for it.
If Lonzo struggles again to stay healthy for the rest of the year, could it be time for the Bulls to try and move on?
You never know because we would do the same thing with Derrick Rose. Rose got hurt two consecutive years and we were like, ‘hey, is this the time to move on from Rose?’
I was the Assistant General Manager for the Bulls at the time, and we talked about this stuff.
We decided not to move on from Rose because we knew he would put in the work and he was going to come back, which he did.
He wasn’t the same D Rose, but he did come back so unless it’s a really, really serious injury, I don’t think there’s ever a time where you pivot away from a young guy.
You give that player, especially if he’s on a big contract, a chance to work on his body.
Working on his body is not enough. You’ve got to work on a kid’s mind because if you take a basketball away from a kid for a thousand days, you don’t know what product you’re getting back.
So, you’ve got to have a complete positive support system around a kid to say, ‘we’re going to stick with this kid through his injury’.
Hopefully he gets back to that type of player that we know he can be.
The Phoenix Suns have not lived up to high preseason expectations so far. What have you made of their performances so far and can they still be a contender this season?
I’m a fan of these Suns. I remember during a draft process, I wanted to come up with a miracle on how we could get Devin Booker to the Bulls, but it never happened.
We chased Kevin Durant as a free agent, but it never happened. Bradley Beal was in Washington, so he was never a player that we could get.
But you’re looking at three great offensive players. Booker is a really good defensive player too, so it’s surprising that they’re in this rut right now.
Injuries have slowed them a little bit, but it’s the NBA, it’s hard to predict a champion. If those guys get healthy, they are still a formidable opponent against anybody.
They can defend, they can score, and the Phoenix Suns are probably just as shocked as I am that they’re in this position right now, but injuries have slowed them.
I still would not count them out in a seven-game series against anybody.
The Suns have been linked with a trade for Jimmy Butler. At 35 years old, could he still help Phoenix kick-start their championship aspirations?
I was in the front office during that draft process when the Bulls drafted Butler. I remember him being the 30th guy sitting there. His name is still on the board, and he was the perfect Bull.
Jimmy going to the Phoenix Suns is very scary. You can put him alongside anybody because he plays the right way. He plays both ends of the floor and he practices hard.
So, to put him with Booker, Durant and Beal would make the Suns a really dynamic team.
They’ve got three really good stars right now in Booker, Durant and Beal but it’s surprising that they’ve got off to a slow start. I’m pretty sure they don’t want to look for excuses, but injuries have derailed them. They lost Beal early, lost Durant, lost Booker for some time.
It’s surprising that they got off to a slow start, but because they are so talented they will get back.
To add Butler, he’s 35 years old, but he’s still in great shape and he’s a great competitor.
They’re talked about in championship conversations and if you add Jimmy to that roster, for sure there’s a chance.
The Golden State Warriors seem to be at a crossroads. Going forward, should they look to acquire veterans to help them get back in contention? Or should they be looking at a rebuild?
I talk to Steve Kerr, we text quite a bit throughout the season and most of the time it’s not even about basketball, but I like the Golden State Warriors.
I love the way they play, and they are well coached by Steve. What they’re going through right now hurts and I’m sure Steve is hurt by it as well.
You got one of the greatest players in the world in Steph Curry. I think they do need to make a trade, and they probably will.
The clock is ticking for some of these veterans in the NBA. It’s ticking for LeBron James. It’s ticking for Curry.
And if I know Steve Kerr, I know he’s hurting for Curry and they’re going to do something to maximize Curry’s career.
It’s only fair to Steph that they would put a product on the floor that compliments Steph’s skills. I don’t think they’re going to sit on their hands and let this season go the way it is.
These guys like Draymond Green, Steph and Andrew Wiggins are champions and I’m sure they’re not happy with what’s going on, but they’ll turn it around at some point.
The Cleveland Cavaliers made a bold move by firing J.B. Bickerstaff when they did, but how impressed have you been with the way Kenny Atkinson has got the team playing?
Bickerstaff was shockingly let go by Cleveland, he was a really good coach, and you can see what he is doing in Detroit.
Working with Steve Kerr prepared Atkinson for this. The thing about watching Cleveland is that they are going against the norm by playing two seven footers.
A lot of people don’t want to play two bigs at the same time, but Cleveland is nullifying that trend.
They don’t have any weaknesses. Donovan Mitchell has lots to prove this season. Darius Garland is playing at an all-star level, and Kenny Atkinson has got them playing the right way.
They move the ball, they defend, they make threes. I love watching them play. You can see a little bit of the Warriors in the way the Cavs play.
I’m not surprised that Kenny Atkinson has his team playing the right way. He’s a student, he’s a teacher and he holds them accountable to play the right way.
The Cavs have a great record, could this year be their chance to make a statement and possibly win an NBA Championship?
Right now, they have signature wins and they win in their building. Their building is a hard place to play.
The building is small, so the fans are right on top of you which means they really do have a home court advantage.
But over the past years, that team didn’t fare well on the road. The road wins they’ve had this year have propelled them to the fact that they understand what’s at stake and that this is a year for them to do it.
They’re going to be around for a while as they’re a young team and they don’t have a lot of weaknesses.
They are on pace to win more than 60 games in the NBA this season, which is difficult to do, and I look forward to seeing them in the second part of the season.
Bickerstaff moved onto the Pistons, they’ve already won more games than the whole of last season – what do you make of the job he’s doing in Detroit?
I’m a huge fan and I follow him a lot. I watch their games a lot.
I’m not surprised by the progress of the Pistons. They’re just as talented as Cleveland. Probably a year or two behind Cleveland because of what the Cavs have been through.
Bickerstaff is one of the most underrated coaches in the NBA. He holds the players’ accountable.
They’re young. They’ve got some really good stars on the team, so it’s kind of gratifying to see. The Detroit Pistons need to be relevant in the NBA for the league to be exciting.
I’m not surprised that J.B. has that team playing the right way. They won some big games at home and on the road which solidifies that they are going to be a group to be reckoned with down the road because they are so young.
They are finding ways to win games this year that they would not have won last year. Kudos to J.B., for sure.
The NBA in the modern era has a lot of high scoring games and three-point shooters; do you think the games are becoming too predictable?
I played in the 90s so I’m always going to like that style of game. On the flip side, I do like the way the NBA game flows now.
Teams take a lot of threes and it’s a double-edged sword. You don’t make threes, you don’t win, if you make them, you look great.
I do like the up and down game. I like the way that the players are young and athletic but the teams that play that way, great, but the teams that defend are the ones who will win.
Teams shooting 50 threes is surprising to me, but I still find the 140-point games exciting.
I just go back to thinking that the teams who make shots like that AND defend well are going to be the teams that are playing in May and June.
You played alongside one of the greatest defensive players in Dennis Rodman, is that profile of player a dying breed in the modern era?
I would love to see a 6’9” player that played the way Dennis Rodman did, but I don’t think there’s ever going to be another Dennis Rodman.
He wasn’t really interested in playing on the offensive end. How many players do you see today who aren’t interested in playing on the offensive end and can go out and get 25 rebounds, while guarding their guy without any help?
I don’t think you will ever see another Dennis Rodman. It was interesting to see this guy work.
The more gratifying part is what I saw before the games and leading up to the games what Dennis Rodman did. It was scary the way he prepared himself to get him ready for an NBA game.
Yes, there’s some athletic players in the NBA that potentially can be a Dennis Rodman but it’s going to be very hard to mold another Rodman in today’s game.
What do you think of Jordan’s NASCAR ownership?
This guy has got to be the most boring billionaire I’ve ever seen in my life.
I can’t even say this is a hobby anymore because when he went into NASCAR, I thought it was a hobby but if Michael Jordan puts his name on anything, he’s only thinking championships.
He’s fishing, he owned his own NBA team, I know he’s a golfer. So, to see him going to NASCAR, I wasn’t surprised because I knew that once he signed his name to the NASCAR brand, that he was going to put something out there to be a champion.
He’s a competitor in his own spirit and he wants to work with other champions. If you have that mindset of being a champion, he’s the most iconic person to work with.
View the latest NBA picks on RotoGrinders.